The challenges of moving from a service-based to product-based business

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[00:00] SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_00: Hi, this is Celine Williams hosting for Monterey
[00:08] SPEAKER_00: over Canada's podcast.
[00:09] SPEAKER_00: My guest today is Victoria Marshman.
[00:12] SPEAKER_00: She is the co-founder of Mavin Shea,
[00:14] SPEAKER_00: a luxury ergonomics slipper brand designed for women by women.
[00:18] SPEAKER_00: Victoria is an entrepreneur,
[00:20] SPEAKER_00: marketer, community leader and dance educator.
[00:23] SPEAKER_00: She has operated and scaled two six-figure companies since 2015
[00:26] SPEAKER_00: and has helped raise over 250,000 local Canadian charities
[00:30] SPEAKER_00: through charitable events.
[00:33] SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Victoria.
[00:35] SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me, Celine.
[00:37] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely. It's my pleasure.
[00:38] SPEAKER_00: I have many questions about the variety of things that you have done.
[00:43] SPEAKER_00: I think it's really interesting.
[00:45] SPEAKER_00: But I'm going to start by asking to tell us a little bit about your journey
[00:49] SPEAKER_00: to getting, which I'm sure hits some of these things,
[00:51] SPEAKER_00: to getting to what you're doing now with Mavin Shea.
[00:56] SPEAKER_00: How did this journey unfold for you?
[00:59] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, my journey as an entrepreneur actually started
[01:05] SPEAKER_02: during university. I went to the University of Toronto
[01:11] SPEAKER_02: and dances, although we've been a passion of mine,
[01:14] SPEAKER_02: I actually was a professional dancer for many, many years before
[01:19] SPEAKER_02: I went to university and unfortunately that ended
[01:22] SPEAKER_02: dramatically with a bad injury.
[01:26] SPEAKER_00: Amazing how often that is the truth for dancing sports.
[01:30] SPEAKER_00: It's just...
[01:30] SPEAKER_02: Dancing sports, I am quick.
[01:33] SPEAKER_02: But I was able to continue training while I was at U of T
[01:38] SPEAKER_02: as a pre-med student.
[01:40] SPEAKER_02: And it was on the dance team actually that I met my now co-founder,
[01:45] SPEAKER_02: Danny Kagan.
[01:46] SPEAKER_02: So we ended up becoming co-captains of the dance team,
[01:49] SPEAKER_02: which was kind of like our free entrepreneur journey,
[01:53] SPEAKER_02: running our cute little dance team together.
[01:56] SPEAKER_02: But we shared a lot of similar passions and one of our biggest passions was
[02:01] SPEAKER_02: events and bringing the community together.
[02:05] SPEAKER_02: So fast forward over a decade, we built and scaled to events,
[02:11] SPEAKER_02: base businesses in Toronto.
[02:13] SPEAKER_02: One of our signature events, city mogul,
[02:17] SPEAKER_02: brought the entrepreneur community together actually to celebrate top entrepreneurs in a
[02:21] SPEAKER_02: runway show for charity.
[02:24] SPEAKER_02: And we were climbing, climbing, climbing.
[02:27] SPEAKER_02: And we'd loved doing events and bringing the community together and we're starting to
[02:32] SPEAKER_02: feel and how to large team and then the pandemic hit.
[02:36] SPEAKER_02: And like so many other businesses are business went from 100 to zero, like overnight.
[02:44] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[02:45] SPEAKER_02: Because everything we were doing was in person.
[02:48] SPEAKER_02: It really was all about that in person connection.
[02:52] SPEAKER_02: So during that those early days at the pandemic, which feel like a long time ago now,
[02:59] SPEAKER_02: we kind of we had a decision.
[03:01] SPEAKER_02: We could wait and see what happened in the event industry,
[03:06] SPEAKER_02: or we could try something else.
[03:11] SPEAKER_02: And we took the pandemic as a blessing in disguise and used that time to think about what
[03:17] SPEAKER_02: products we felt like we were missing during the pandemic.
[03:21] SPEAKER_02: And it was a multitude of things that happened all at once, but it was being at home for the
[03:27] SPEAKER_02: first time working from home. That was so new for so many of us.
[03:32] SPEAKER_02: My co-founder, Danny, she got pregnant during the pandemic and was experiencing a lot of
[03:37] SPEAKER_02: like excruciating back hip and knee pain, which a lot of women have during pregnancy.
[03:43] SPEAKER_02: One thing led to another and we kind of had an aha moment that there's not really proper
[03:49] SPEAKER_02: footwear designed for people to wear at home slippers.
[03:54] SPEAKER_02: Slippers are typically frumpy.
[03:57] SPEAKER_02: They get a real stinky, I don't know about yours, but by the get fever thinking.
[04:03] SPEAKER_02: They're not supportive. They're not made to support you all day.
[04:05] SPEAKER_02: So that kind of started our journey during the pandemic to create the dream slipper,
[04:11] SPEAKER_02: something that we really wanted during the pandemic and we didn't have.
[04:16] SPEAKER_00: So it's really interesting to go from events to product, right? That's a big...
[04:26] SPEAKER_01: It's shift. I'm curious what you
[04:35] SPEAKER_00: learned from running events that he was able to translate to kind of a product-based
[04:44] SPEAKER_00: endeavor or versus like what was completely not applicable or brand new in this product,
[04:52] SPEAKER_00: where we were like, we had not thought of that because that was just not in our realm of awareness
[04:56] SPEAKER_02: fire. Yeah, huge pivot. Like no connection at all. So yes, the pivot from being a service-based
[05:09] SPEAKER_02: to a product-based entrepreneur was steep. However, the biggest thing I've learned is there's
[05:17] SPEAKER_02: a lot of things that you can carry with you regardless of what type of your business that you're in.
[05:24] SPEAKER_02: Number one, our operations and how to build a team and find the right people to support us.
[05:30] SPEAKER_02: Those skills are like invaluable and doesn't matter what type of business you're in. You know
[05:35] SPEAKER_02: what your zone of geniuses and what you're good at and figuring out the people that you need to help
[05:40] SPEAKER_02: you with all the other buckets. For us, creating a product was like, we've never done this before.
[05:47] SPEAKER_02: We need support. We need mentorship. We need a footwear expert. That was like a big bucket for us to
[05:53] SPEAKER_02: fill. So that like operations, I feel like really transferred nicely for us. And we were marketers
[06:01] SPEAKER_02: by trade even in our events because we built and scaled our own events. Like we created events from
[06:07] SPEAKER_02: scratch. We invited people. We got hundreds of people out. So we knew how to build community on
[06:13] SPEAKER_02: social media and get people excited about something. Instead of it being like an in-person event,
[06:21] SPEAKER_02: it was a product. So there has been a lot of skill that I've transferred over, but my gosh,
[06:28] SPEAKER_02: the journey to create a product from scratch. Now that I've gone through it three years in because
[06:36] SPEAKER_02: it took us literally three years for my idea to like product being in our hands. I have a tremendous
[06:44] SPEAKER_02: amount of respect for any other entrepreneur who also does that because it is a long journey.
[06:51] SPEAKER_00: It's a I have not done it. So products are I definitely work more in the service world,
[06:58] SPEAKER_00: but I yeah, I know who have done it. It's there's so many iterations of something that you're not
[07:05] SPEAKER_00: even thinking about ahead of time. You're like, oh, I think a few changes and it'll work out perfectly.
[07:10] SPEAKER_00: And then so many iterations and so many testing things. And that's what I've heard from other
[07:16] SPEAKER_00: people is like, you can't even imagine how many time you're going to be like, that's on it,
[07:20] SPEAKER_00: that's on it, that's on it, to get to what is it. Yeah, yeah. And especially when it comes to a
[07:27] SPEAKER_02: technical product, like the biggest thing for us that we were frustrated with, which was why we
[07:33] SPEAKER_02: started, which what why we created the slippers was because they're like the slippers we had
[07:40] SPEAKER_02: our entire lives were like these front-be pleat pieces of foam. And we actually ended up bringing
[07:45] SPEAKER_02: a podiatrist onto our team who's a foot expert. And she was an incredible resource in educating
[07:51] SPEAKER_02: us on all the things that you're but where are supposed to have high arch support, the peel cut
[07:59] SPEAKER_02: made with material that are breathable and moisture wicking so they don't get stinky. And especially
[08:06] SPEAKER_02: for women, if women are listening, I'm sure they are. We have so many things we also have to deal
[08:12] SPEAKER_02: with we're way more susceptible to planter fasciitis because we're forced to wear high heeled
[08:18] SPEAKER_02: and shoes that are really bad for our feet. And as we get older, our archers actually flatten
[08:24] SPEAKER_02: over time, like women's feet. Men don't have this issue, but our archers flatten over time do
[08:30] SPEAKER_02: the menopause and just going through life changes. So we really have to be conscious of
[08:35] SPEAKER_02: A wearing supportive footwear and these having that arch support because
[08:40] SPEAKER_02: or we're going to be dealing with not just foot issues but back hip knee issues. So
[08:45] SPEAKER_02: yeah, you once you get into like the technical elements of creating a product, you realize how many
[08:51] SPEAKER_02: things you actually have to put in and it took us 12 iterations of our prototype to get to a place
[09:00] SPEAKER_02: where we were like, this is okay. It's not perfect, but this is okay. Yeah, crazy. A lot of iterations.
[09:09] SPEAKER_00: It's operations. Yeah. So I'm curious. You mentioned building community was one of those
[09:16] SPEAKER_00: one of the things that translated. And I think in today more than ever, building community is
[09:25] SPEAKER_00: something that and I, you know, I recognize it's something that we've been talking about for a long
[09:29] SPEAKER_00: time, but I think to more than ever, as people are still working from home, as how people connect,
[09:36] SPEAKER_00: it has in my opinion, permanently changed in some ways for better or worse, there are some changes
[09:42] SPEAKER_00: that are I think going to continue to be ongoing. The community is more and more of a topic of
[09:51] SPEAKER_00: conversation I have found with entrepreneurs. How do we build community? How do you sustain community?
[09:58] SPEAKER_00: How do you, you know, whether it's start or pivot or whatever, where communities at and I'm curious
[10:07] SPEAKER_00: in an event based business, in a service based business, they're that in person connection can
[10:13] SPEAKER_00: sustain a community in a very specific way. And you can build a community around that connection,
[10:21] SPEAKER_00: that in person, that like, you know, similar interests, whatever the case may be.
[10:26] SPEAKER_00: How did that, how was building a community around a product similar or different? Because I would
[10:34] SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm guessing I might be wrong that you're not like we're doing these big in person
[10:38] SPEAKER_00: in person events around shoes, maybe, but I would guess that's not a big piece of building a
[10:44] SPEAKER_02: community for a product. Yeah, yeah, well, I think where people get it wrong is it's not about
[10:55] SPEAKER_02: the product. Like we could be doing water bottles, we could be doing no-putts, we could be doing
[11:01] SPEAKER_02: anything, but I think at the end of the day, when you're building a brand period, regardless of if
[11:10] SPEAKER_02: you're offering a service or a product or anything, when you're building a brand, you have values
[11:17] SPEAKER_02: that you stick to as that brand. And you attract people that your brand's values align with. And
[11:29] SPEAKER_02: for us, community has always meant bringing people together around the values that we're trying
[11:40] SPEAKER_02: to put into the world. So for us, with Maven Shea, our biggest values are helping women live more
[11:47] SPEAKER_02: confident lives. So, you know, what can we do to support the women in our community to feel more
[11:54] SPEAKER_02: confident because we know when a woman is stepping into their day with more confidence, they're showing
[12:00] SPEAKER_02: up as their best selves, they're feeling empowered to be there for their families and friends more,
[12:05] SPEAKER_02: they're putting themselves first, they're investing in themselves. So confidence is a big thing for us
[12:12] SPEAKER_02: and a lot of the messaging and marketing and conversations we have online are about confidence and
[12:20] SPEAKER_02: how we can and tools and resources that we can give people to live more confidently. So we really
[12:27] SPEAKER_02: take like a look at each of our values and build community around that and that, you know, we're
[12:36] SPEAKER_02: encouraging women not just to invest in proper footwear, but like invest in themselves, like
[12:42] SPEAKER_02: do things that make you feel good and help you take care of yourself so that we can take care of
[12:49] SPEAKER_02: others and, you know, help everyone else in our lives, but it's we're often always putting
[12:53] SPEAKER_02: ourselves in the backseat. So I think like that's one example I can give, is like really knowing
[13:01] SPEAKER_00: your brand's values and building community around that. So I know one of the things that, you know,
[13:09] SPEAKER_00: when I read your intro on things and there is the like raising money for Canadian charities,
[13:16] SPEAKER_00: is that part of the brand values, is that part of the work that you do with the organizing,
[13:25] SPEAKER_00: like with the companies that you started, or is that something that is your own personal value
[13:29] SPEAKER_00: that you put your time and effort in or could be what it could also be about. I recognize that.
[13:33] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I think, yes, co-founder values usually percolated to your brand's values, but yes,
[13:41] SPEAKER_02: for my co-founder, Danny and I, giving back has always been a big part of what we do,
[13:48] SPEAKER_02: not just through doing events to raise funds for charities, but also mentorship and supporting
[13:54] SPEAKER_02: other entrepreneurs and women. For Mavinshay, we wanted to do something that was intentional
[14:01] SPEAKER_02: around giving back. So we have a partnership with an organization called Souls for Souls,
[14:08] SPEAKER_02: and they have an obstacle program that allows you to donate
[14:13] SPEAKER_02: footwear, you're gently used to footwear to people who really need it. So we've done a lot of
[14:20] SPEAKER_02: two fundraiser, we're also integrating a way to actually donate your pair of shoes
[14:28] SPEAKER_02: when you purchase from a app checkout. So like also pulling a mat sustainability angle and also giving
[14:35] SPEAKER_02: people, because footwear is an incredibly valuable thing to have when you're at risk or on the street,
[14:42] SPEAKER_02: like it's one of the most important things to have. So Souls for Souls felt really aligned with
[14:46] SPEAKER_00: everything that we were doing. It's really interesting because there's a few organizations that I
[14:56] SPEAKER_00: support, especially on Christmas words, about giving shoe boxes and gifts to people who are
[15:03] SPEAKER_00: at risk on house, whatever the case may be. And it's really interesting because the things that
[15:08] SPEAKER_00: they're like, we always get asked for are socks, underwear, you can't give shoes in that, but it's
[15:15] SPEAKER_00: the stuff that is really basic like shoes, socks, like these things that we don't think about
[15:21] SPEAKER_00: necessarily as being the most valuable for people who are at risk. And it is those basics. And I
[15:26] SPEAKER_00: think that I can absolutely see the alignment with something like Souls for Souls in what you're
[15:31] SPEAKER_00: doing. So I think it's really cool, but you've built out a partnership with them.
[15:35] SPEAKER_02: Yeah. And just for Damien and I, as people like we are big on mentoring and our previous
[15:43] SPEAKER_02: organization CityMocals, that was a big part of our ethos was, you know, we're in this together,
[15:49] SPEAKER_02: especially as entrepreneurs. So we have many people, we mentor, many people mentor us and we are
[15:57] SPEAKER_02: really big into supporting one another. So that's what it's about. So I'm curious is,
[16:04] SPEAKER_00: I know you said CityMocals and there was another prior to that presumably.
[16:10] SPEAKER_00: You had mentioned too, are either of those still up and running? Did you pivot them entirely,
[16:17] SPEAKER_00: shut them down during the pandemic? Like what, what ended up being the end result of that? Because
[16:22] SPEAKER_00: and I ask that just to you of context, we hear so often from people who had a certain business
[16:32] SPEAKER_00: during the pandemic or we're starting a certain business and paused it or restarted it or pivoted
[16:39] SPEAKER_00: it or don't know what to do with it now. And you know, whether it's still running or not is not
[16:45] SPEAKER_00: really the point so much as what was your experience in sorting that out and the end result?
[16:51] SPEAKER_00: Because I think the more we talk about that, the less shame people have about whether
[16:55] SPEAKER_00: there's data didn't work, the more understanding they have about the variety of choices that people
[17:00] SPEAKER_00: were making inside of these businesses and these organizations. And I just, I think it's a really
[17:09] SPEAKER_00: valuable conversation to have because you went through it very specifically, pandemic or not,
[17:16] SPEAKER_00: it could have switched for it, but definitely that effect today.
[17:19] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love this and I think it's so important. We pulled back the curtain more on
[17:25] SPEAKER_02: what happens in these big moments of transition and how to get through it. So
[17:31] SPEAKER_02: for us with City Mogul, like I said, we were running in-person event. We did panels, talks, and then
[17:45] SPEAKER_02: the pandemic hit. We didn't have the idea yet for the slippers. That was kind of an evolving idea
[17:53] SPEAKER_02: through 2020 and 2021. But through the pandemic, we acted really fast on City Mogul because we were
[18:02] SPEAKER_02: in community leader mindset and we're like, wow, we're going through this. All of the other
[18:10] SPEAKER_02: entrepreneurs in our community must be going through this. We got to help people get together
[18:15] SPEAKER_02: and create ways for people to talk and stay connected through this. So literally in like a month
[18:22] SPEAKER_02: of the pandemic hitting, we launched a mastermind program called Mogul Cruz and it was an online
[18:29] SPEAKER_02: mastermind group. And this is before like people were, I feel like this is pretty common now,
[18:35] SPEAKER_02: but this was like, we were one of the only ones doing this. So we launched a mastermind group where
[18:41] SPEAKER_02: entrepreneurs of like six to eight people would meet weekly and we organized the whole thing.
[18:48] SPEAKER_02: And within three months of us, just running that cohort, we started doing some online networking
[18:54] SPEAKER_02: events and some online talks and panels. And that led to us three months into the pandemic,
[19:01] SPEAKER_02: actually launching an online membership community for City Mogul. So we built out mentorship,
[19:09] SPEAKER_02: a mastermind and networking and at all types of events through the pandemic. So 2020 was actually
[19:17] SPEAKER_02: a great year for City Mogul. We managed to pivot and build this online membership community through
[19:23] SPEAKER_02: that time and had about 200 members in our first year. And then 21 half, yeah, it was great. And
[19:38] SPEAKER_02: so we continued to build the community online. But for us, Mavinshade was also taking off and we really
[19:45] SPEAKER_02: saw the opportunity and were so passionate about creating this product. We were starting to be pulled
[19:50] SPEAKER_02: into the Mavinshade world, but still operating City Mogul. And then 2022 came and we were like,
[19:59] SPEAKER_02: if there was still, it was weird, early 2022, there was still uncertainty about what was going to
[20:04] SPEAKER_02: happen, especially in Canada and in person stuff. So in 2022, we made the difficult decision
[20:12] SPEAKER_02: to pause all the programming because Mavinshade was really taking off. And I love that you brought
[20:19] SPEAKER_02: this up because for us, it's, we, there has been a little bit of guilt and shame around it because
[20:25] SPEAKER_02: a big part of us still love that business. And we're trying to figure out do we sell it,
[20:34] SPEAKER_02: do we try to get it acquired? Like, what do we do? This community is so beautiful and we want to see
[20:40] SPEAKER_02: it continue. And we're still kind of, it's still kind of up in the air and people ask us all the time
[20:46] SPEAKER_02: and we're so all in on Mavinshade right now that we just don't know what to do. But we, we,
[20:52] SPEAKER_02: we know that there's still something there potentially in the future. We just don't know what.
[20:58] SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that so openly because I think it is, it is tough and people have
[21:08] SPEAKER_00: a lot of different feelings in moments like that. And I think especially when there's a community
[21:13] SPEAKER_00: element where it's like, am I letting people down or right, like it becomes, there's so much more
[21:20] SPEAKER_02: that comes up when there are people. Yeah. And I feel like when you're in service-based businesses,
[21:29] SPEAKER_02: where you're like giving something to people and it's improving and helping their lives,
[21:33] SPEAKER_02: like you hold a lot of, like you feel responsible. So that decision that day we had to decide to pause
[21:42] SPEAKER_02: was like in my day, in my days of like the highs and lows of entrepreneurship that was like
[21:48] SPEAKER_02: one of the low-end because yeah, I felt like I was letting our community down. I felt like
[21:55] SPEAKER_02: we had tried so hard during the pandemic to figure it out. But you know, we,
[22:02] SPEAKER_02: this little product, this cute little slipper that we were so passionate about needed
[22:06] SPEAKER_02: are 100% attention to be, to be finished and put in the world. So we have to make difficult
[22:13] SPEAKER_02: decisions all the time. And I think one of the biggest things I learned in that experience is
[22:18] SPEAKER_02: really as an entrepreneur, you can't tie yourself to the decisions you have to make in your business.
[22:25] SPEAKER_02: Because in my early days, I would let it like really impact me personally. So I mean,
[22:31] SPEAKER_02: that's something I'm always working on. It's like, okay, I have to make this decision for her
[22:35] SPEAKER_02: for Mayvansh, not for Victoria, but for the business, you know, it's hard.
[22:41] SPEAKER_00: I mean, yes, the so much of the work that I do in my businesses around separating that,
[22:49] SPEAKER_00: you know, things aren't personal and we can't take things, we can't one make things personal,
[22:55] SPEAKER_00: but we also can't take things that happen personally because it's so rare. It's so rare
[23:01] SPEAKER_00: in things are actually personal. But because we're in our own experience, we make it about us.
[23:06] SPEAKER_00: And I think continuing, you know, to do that work as an entrepreneur at your point to separate
[23:12] SPEAKER_00: those things out and be like, this isn't about me, it isn't personal, it's not, it has to be like
[23:21] SPEAKER_00: about looking at the situation without that lens. The more we can do that, the, I mean,
[23:26] SPEAKER_00: I think, healthier mentally we are, but also the easier it is to navigate the world.
[23:32] SPEAKER_02: Yes, definitely feel lighter going through the day, not, not but caring, you know, the backpack of
[23:39] SPEAKER_00: rock, the, the, the, the burden. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, I, so I'm sure you mentioned the highs and
[23:47] SPEAKER_00: lows of entrepreneurship, and this was one of the lows. What for you have been some of the highs
[23:54] SPEAKER_00: and or some of the lows that you're like, there was a lesson in here, and this was my lesson from
[23:59] SPEAKER_00: these lows, because this one, it's very, you know, that kind of separating of Victoria and business
[24:07] SPEAKER_00: sounds like a lesson inside of this low or reinforced it at least. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I love talking
[24:15] SPEAKER_02: about the lows, because I feel like those are where we learn the most things about ourselves.
[24:20] SPEAKER_02: Um, and, you know, also trying to not fall into the highs and the lows and really trying to stay
[24:30] SPEAKER_02: level headed is like, that's a whole other conversation. But, um, you know, on our journey with
[24:38] SPEAKER_02: Meevin Shay, um, we've, we, it's a different type of business and one of the biggest things I
[24:44] SPEAKER_02: think from being a service based entrepreneur to product is service based. You can often bootstrap
[24:50] SPEAKER_02: and really scale it yourself with like your own fun. And you're creating a product, it does require
[24:56] SPEAKER_02: like some kind of capital, um, and raising money. Yeah. You really get it off the ground.
[25:04] SPEAKER_02: It's quite costly to create a product from scratch and hire the right people to make it right.
[25:10] SPEAKER_02: Um, so we had to raise a round of capital. Um, and who the highs and the lows of
[25:21] SPEAKER_02: navigating the investor journey, especially as two female founders who had never done a before,
[25:27] SPEAKER_02: creating a product for women. Gosh, do we have a lot of lows and learning? Like, you know, I,
[25:36] SPEAKER_02: I never felt the, the male patriarchy in entrepreneurship, honestly, until I got into rooms with
[25:48] SPEAKER_02: men where we were pitching a women's product. Like, I think some of our lowest lows were the,
[25:54] SPEAKER_02: like, the outcomes of those conversations and kind of having those realizations like, wow,
[26:00] SPEAKER_02: this is still a problem. Yeah. And I'll be perfectly honest. Like, we were out going after
[26:07] SPEAKER_02: angels investors and all of these people just doing our own research, trying to find people that
[26:12] SPEAKER_02: would, you know, invest in naven today and be a part of our, um, cap table and nine out of the 10
[26:18] SPEAKER_02: people we were speaking to were white men. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. So I don't know if this is a low, but I
[26:28] SPEAKER_02: think it's been a big learning journey on how far we need to go, go, um, that's definitely
[26:37] SPEAKER_02: lit a fire under my co-founder, Danny Niesbeth, because it's, we want to be successful so that we can
[26:45] SPEAKER_02: eventually be the female investors supporting the next generation of women entrepreneurs,
[26:53] SPEAKER_02: because it was so hard to find capital as to women. So it's all my biggest lows were during that time.
[27:04] SPEAKER_00: No. I, so I just want to, I really appreciate you sharing that because it is, we, I think that
[27:14] SPEAKER_00: conversations had amongst women, amongst female entrepreneurs sometimes. And I think it often,
[27:24] SPEAKER_00: a like, hey, it's going to be tough to raise capital if you're doing that as a female,
[27:29] SPEAKER_00: but I don't think we really get into how problematic it is and how,
[27:35] SPEAKER_00: um, having, so I've mentored some female-run companies that we're looking for funding. And
[27:43] SPEAKER_00: the amount of education they would have to do when they're stepping into a room of men,
[27:51] SPEAKER_00: often white men, but pretty much all men when they're looking at a, a product that is for women,
[27:58] SPEAKER_00: whatever it is, whether it's makeup, which many women wear, it should be clear that there's a
[28:05] SPEAKER_00: demand for makeup, there's a demand for skincare, there's a demand for shoes that, you know,
[28:10] SPEAKER_00: that fit, or going up, there's a demand for good, quality clothes, whatever it is if it's a product,
[28:15] SPEAKER_00: the amount of education that they have to do when they're stepping into that room of men because
[28:21] SPEAKER_00: they just have no, whether intentionally not awareness of the market for women is an added burden
[28:32] SPEAKER_00: that men don't experience when they step in those rooms. Yeah. And I think the stat
[28:40] SPEAKER_02: still to this day is out of all the venture capital in Canada, only 2.9% of it goes to women,
[28:49] SPEAKER_02: 2.9% and all the things you said are 100% true. You have to go in knowing way more than our male
[29:00] SPEAKER_02: counterparts. We have to go in proving, you know, ex-boyant said in like having done so much more
[29:07] SPEAKER_02: research. So it really does test your, you know, confidence, strength, intelligence on like so
[29:15] SPEAKER_02: many other levels when it really, when it really shouldn't have to do, you know, like you said,
[29:20] SPEAKER_02: we should have really have to justify the need for support of footwear, makeup, intimate, you know,
[29:29] SPEAKER_02: anything to do with periods, like these are things 50% of the world has to do with. Yeah.
[29:34] SPEAKER_00: Yeah. I've said this many times is I would, I think about companies that are male that have got
[29:45] SPEAKER_00: astronomical amounts of fun day. And I'm like, I would bet they didn't, I mean, I'm gonna
[29:49] SPEAKER_00: pick on Uber. I bet they didn't have to say like, we have all of these test cases improved.
[29:54] SPEAKER_00: The people are gonna want to ride in cars with strangers.
[29:57] SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
[30:00] SPEAKER_00: Men were like, oh, I can, and I'm picking on Uber. I'm not saying it, but you know, it's like,
[30:04] SPEAKER_00: I can see how people would want to get in a car and have a ride that's not a taxi, but the myth,
[30:10] SPEAKER_00: it's involved something that is pertains to women. It's like really a thing that's
[30:17] SPEAKER_02: big for the population. Is that really necessary? Like, do women really need that? You know,
[30:24] SPEAKER_02: I can't tell you how many times we heard that. So one of our strategies for any women out there
[30:30] SPEAKER_02: that are raising capital is we would strategically add a male investor. But like, it's your
[30:37] SPEAKER_02: life around, is your girlfriend around. We would ask them to be in the room while we were a pitching.
[30:43] SPEAKER_02: Because we knew if the woman heard our pitch, she'd be like, oh my god, don't, like, you have to
[30:49] SPEAKER_02: invest in this honey. Like, it sounds so like superficial, but it's true. Like, we need at that
[30:55] SPEAKER_02: woman, that female energy to be able to explain to the man how important. Yeah. I think that's,
[31:02] SPEAKER_00: I mean, good for you for figuring that out and for doing it. Yeah. That is, that is a good tip.
[31:08] SPEAKER_02: It's a real tip. Yeah. Yeah. I have many more, and I'm open to sharing them all because it just,
[31:14] SPEAKER_02: I didn't, we didn't realize we were what we were getting into. And it was, it's an
[31:20] SPEAKER_02: essential part of our business stories capital because of how quickly we want to grow and scale. So
[31:27] SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to ask this question before we wrap up is, are there one or two kind of
[31:34] SPEAKER_00: key tips that come to mind that you're like, these are my top couple of things that I would say
[31:40] SPEAKER_00: based on your experience that I would want other, especially female entrepreneurs to know stepping
[31:45] SPEAKER_02: into that. For female entrepreneurs, especially in the product space, if you really want to build
[31:56] SPEAKER_02: a multimillion dollar business, you have to have access to capital. And there's three ways to do
[32:02] SPEAKER_02: it. Number one, you can do a crowdfunding campaign. So you can rally a community around your
[32:10] SPEAKER_02: product through something like Kickstarter in decoco. You can do it yourself. And this allows
[32:16] SPEAKER_02: people to give you small amounts of money to build that product. We actually did a Kickstarter
[32:22] SPEAKER_02: actually about a year ago this time and raised about 50k in 30 days, which was incredibly
[32:29] SPEAKER_02: valuable for us in those early days and getting the product out of the ground. But I would highly
[32:34] SPEAKER_02: recommend doing a Kickstarter crowdfunding campaign would be my number one suggestion.
[32:39] SPEAKER_02: Number two, before you start raising capital, find a mentor who has walked in your shoes and
[32:47] SPEAKER_02: done it before and or joined some type of accelerator. My co-founder and I, Danny, we were a part of
[32:54] SPEAKER_02: the movement 51 accelerator. And it's a three month program that's free to join. You just have to
[33:03] SPEAKER_02: apply and they literally prime and prep you to pitch to investors, your budget, your pitch that
[33:11] SPEAKER_02: helping you with connections, everything. So that was an incredible resource. So do a crowdfunding
[33:17] SPEAKER_02: campaign join an accelerator like the 51 or get a mentor. Number three, I would say there's a
[33:24] SPEAKER_02: lot of grants and resources, not so many for products, but especially if you're in certain
[33:29] SPEAKER_02: industries or tech spaces, there is a lot out there. And the grant sherpa is a great organization
[33:36] SPEAKER_02: that helps you actually connect with people who can help you get those loans and access to free
[33:43] SPEAKER_00: money, which we all need. Free money is great. Yes. Thank you for those tips. That's super, super
[33:53] SPEAKER_00: valuable. I really appreciate it. I appreciate the time you took to chat with me and to share
[33:58] SPEAKER_00: it openly. It's great. Victoria, thank you very much. Thank you, Celine. And always an open book if
[34:05] SPEAKER_00: anybody wants to connect with me. So and you can connect with Victoria on Instagram. She's at
[34:10] SPEAKER_00: Victoria Undershore Marksman or Maven Shea, which will be in the podcast notes. You can check it out
[34:17] SPEAKER_00: there and Maven Shea has kindly offered listeners an exclusive discount. The code will be in the notes
[34:24] SPEAKER_00: as well in the in the podcast notes. So you can get it there and you should definitely check them out.
[34:29] SPEAKER_00: Yes. And thanks to all of you for listening to Kans podcast, like, comment, and subscribe to
[34:36] SPEAKER_00: all our channels to get the latest podcast from entrepreneurs across Canada.