To build a business successfully surround yourself with people who are smarter than you and let your ego go by the wayside

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[00:00] SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:06] SPEAKER_00: Oh Julian, welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:10] SPEAKER_00: I think it's really exciting to have a fourth generation
[00:15] SPEAKER_00: entrepreneur.
[00:17] SPEAKER_00: As I was saying to you earlier, one of the iconic Canadian brands,
[00:25] SPEAKER_00: Henry's, and what the question that I always ask at the beginning is,
[00:33] SPEAKER_00: you know, to tell us a little bit about your entrepreneurial journey,
[00:37] SPEAKER_00: you know, why you started it?
[00:39] SPEAKER_00: Because I've read some of your background and it wasn't like diving in and
[00:45] SPEAKER_00: staying in the beginning.
[00:46] SPEAKER_00: You know, why you started it?
[00:50] SPEAKER_00: You know, what differences you encountered by being that fourth generation?
[00:59] SPEAKER_00: You know, where it is today and where the future might be because, you know,
[01:05] SPEAKER_00: never mind the technology in your business, but, you know,
[01:10] SPEAKER_00: the overall technology, you know, you've lived through some of the most significant
[01:17] SPEAKER_00: changes in retail that have ever happened.
[01:21] SPEAKER_00: Not some, the most significant changes in retail that have ever happened.
[01:27] SPEAKER_00: So, anyway, that was a big ask, okay?
[01:31] SPEAKER_00: So, well, over to you.
[01:34] SPEAKER_03: Right, I'll do it in a nutshell.
[01:35] SPEAKER_03: So, I am very proud to be the CEO of Henry's Canada's greatest camera store.
[01:43] SPEAKER_03: For those of you who don't know where the largest independent digital imaging retailer
[01:47] SPEAKER_03: in the country, I've been running the business for the last seven years, working in it full
[01:54] SPEAKER_03: time for the last 13, but as you, you know, it's a family business.
[01:59] SPEAKER_03: So, I'm actually, it's in my blood.
[02:02] SPEAKER_03: I was, you know, I'm a family member and I'm the fourth generation, which is, which is
[02:06] SPEAKER_03: very hard to believe quite often and doesn't happen very much in North America, to be honest,
[02:13] SPEAKER_03: to have such such long running businesses.
[02:18] SPEAKER_03: As you, you know, hinted at my career path is not exactly the career path when you looked at it
[02:23] SPEAKER_03: that you would expect when you think of somebody running a family business.
[02:30] SPEAKER_03: I, you know, saw the toll that the business took on my father as I was growing up and as he
[02:35] SPEAKER_03: was running the business, he actually had a heart attack in his late 40s and it was absolutely not
[02:40] SPEAKER_03: how I envisioned my life. So, I went out, my passion was in community and diversity and corporate
[02:48] SPEAKER_03: social responsibility. And so, I actually had a, you know, a very different life before Henry's,
[02:55] SPEAKER_03: where I, you know, focused on that. And it was after I'd had my own experience working in a very
[03:04] SPEAKER_03: different field. I was, there was a lot of diplomatic work, a lot of NGO work and somehow in my,
[03:13] SPEAKER_03: I was able to find the connection between the two and found that there really was a place for me
[03:17] SPEAKER_03: in the business. And so, when I came back, I was able to lead a number of strategic initiatives
[03:25] SPEAKER_03: breaking down silos between, between different departments and a lot of that experience that I'd
[03:30] SPEAKER_03: had previously, sort of that diplomatic space actually helped me to navigate build relationships
[03:38] SPEAKER_03: throughout the business. And after it had that experience, then eventually,
[03:45] SPEAKER_03: took over as CEO. But absolutely none of this was a straight path. Never how I saw myself, but I
[03:54] SPEAKER_00: quite love it. Quite love it. Well, you know, I mean, I'm looking behind you, but you're saying
[04:04] SPEAKER_00: pretty mental health and the focus as one thing we can talk about. But before we mean maybe that
[04:10] SPEAKER_00: is the biggest challenge. You know, what's the greatest challenge you faced in your business
[04:17] SPEAKER_00: today? And when I say you, I'm probably saying you and the family, you predominantly, but maybe there's
[04:28] SPEAKER_00: something from the family side of it as well. I don't know. Yeah, so, so I am the first, sadly, the first,
[04:39] SPEAKER_03: CEO in Canada to speak publicly about being diagnosed with a mental illness. And I say, sadly,
[04:47] SPEAKER_03: I'm glad that I've spoken publicly about it, but statistically speaking, it's impossible that
[04:52] SPEAKER_03: there aren't as many CEOs as there are in Canada and that I'm the first one to actually speak about it.
[04:59] SPEAKER_03: So, I mean, yeah, so it is something that has deeply impacted my life. It is something that has
[05:07] SPEAKER_03: deeply impacted my family. So my family is also quite, we've all spoken more openly about it. It's a
[05:16] SPEAKER_03: genetic, you know, genetics that run through our family. So we all are impacted by mental illness.
[05:23] SPEAKER_03: And while the question was the challenges that I face, I actually wouldn't necessarily
[05:33] SPEAKER_03: frame that as a challenge that I faced in my time as a CEO, as that. It's something that really
[05:41] SPEAKER_03: impacted me when I was much younger, when I was first diagnosed in my early 20s. But by the time
[05:50] SPEAKER_03: that I've sort of become CEO, learning how to manage it, being, you know, I have a strong support
[05:56] SPEAKER_03: network. And so I'm very comfortable with it. And I think in many ways it has actually brought a
[06:06] SPEAKER_03: lot of strength to my leadership and how we make sure that there's the right kind of governance
[06:16] SPEAKER_03: in place in the business, the right type of sort of systems for decision making, which I think
[06:23] SPEAKER_03: are also to be honest, just good business practices. But things that I think others probably take
[06:29] SPEAKER_03: for granted. It's like now the biggest challenge really is, is I look at our employees and people
[06:39] SPEAKER_03: in, you know, the world at large right now. And we've all been living through sort of in crisis
[06:43] SPEAKER_03: mode for the last two and a half, three years, right? And that's a really hard place to be. So
[06:53] SPEAKER_03: right now it really is thinking about the well-being and the mental health of our employees as we
[06:59] SPEAKER_03: continue to push through all the challenges that we're all facing. Yeah, I mean, without being
[07:09] SPEAKER_00: too inquiring, you know, I was, and you know, retail is, you know, no mind COVID, I mean,
[07:20] SPEAKER_00: it took, it's taken a pound with COVID, it took a massive pounding in the 90s,
[07:29] SPEAKER_00: in early 2000s with the arrival of e-commerce and whatever, you know,
[07:40] SPEAKER_00: how do you, you know, in the, there's lots of entrepreneurial retailers, you know, how do you
[07:48] SPEAKER_00: overcome that kind of, you know, the virtual, the virtual commerce versus the real commerce, if you
[07:59] SPEAKER_03: like the physical commerce. The physical. Yeah, I don't think it's about overcoming. I think it's
[08:04] SPEAKER_03: about embracing. Okay. And I mean, we talk about how much retail has changed in the last little bit
[08:10] SPEAKER_03: and maybe it's that it's changed a lot in a short period of time. But if you sort of, if you look
[08:14] SPEAKER_03: back over our history, retail has changed significantly and it's always changed, right? We started off
[08:20] SPEAKER_03: with, right, the general store and then the department store and then big box, we all thought big
[08:26] SPEAKER_03: box was going to be the end of, of, of, you know, the specialty channel and then we've got e-com and
[08:34] SPEAKER_03: somehow like we're all, we're still here. And if anything COVID, while it may be shifted a lot
[08:40] SPEAKER_03: of people to experiment more online and to incorporate e-com into their, into their shopping habits,
[08:47] SPEAKER_03: post, if you can say post COVID or at least post lockdown world, we've seen, it's, it's,
[08:56] SPEAKER_03: clear that people truly do like a physical shopping experience. The important part is embracing
[09:03] SPEAKER_03: both. And so that, that digital experience is a really important part of the customer shopping
[09:09] SPEAKER_03: journey. And so you need to make sure that you're digital, but you also have to be physical. And I
[09:15] SPEAKER_03: think for us, the key is, is what's the value proposition? And the value proposition that we have
[09:23] SPEAKER_03: is the expertise that we have in our stores, the sales associates, and the fact that you can come
[09:30] SPEAKER_03: in and you can actually touch and feel a physical product, you can play with it, see how it feels
[09:36] SPEAKER_03: in your hands. And then ultimately, it's being able to have a conversation and get inspired by
[09:42] SPEAKER_03: other people who are, are interested in the same thing that you are. And you, you can't recreate
[09:48] SPEAKER_03: at least not yet online, but you need to be there online so that when somebody is looking and
[09:56] SPEAKER_03: doing their research, they're there, and maybe they come into the store and they have the conversation,
[10:02] SPEAKER_03: but then they go buy it online and that's okay too. It's about understanding how they, how they
[10:06] SPEAKER_00: play together. So next thing we see, the Henry's better versus that, that, that, that,
[10:14] SPEAKER_00: you know, why do you see the business in the next five years? We've got them, we've got
[10:18] SPEAKER_00: Web3 here, and the metaverse, and everything else. And you know, we've got people buying real estate
[10:25] SPEAKER_00: in the metaverse. That did a, and money I built one of the first virtual malls online in about
[10:34] SPEAKER_00: 20 years ago. It was a bit too soon, but it was still a early metaverse. Yeah.
[10:39] SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Where do you see it? What does it mean? Or a certain way. I mean, nothing wrong with sitting
[10:47] SPEAKER_03: in the waiting and suddenly, you may. It's a tough, it's a, to be honest, today, you know, seeing past
[10:54] SPEAKER_03: the next like six months is, is really where the focus is. So I've got, I've got visions of five
[11:02] SPEAKER_03: years from now, but you know, as we emerge from COVID and then supply chain constraints,
[11:08] SPEAKER_03: which are still things that we are feeling, it's hard to think, to think that long term.
[11:14] SPEAKER_03: The metaverse is definitely something that's interesting and curious to see how that will turn out.
[11:21] SPEAKER_03: But I do see, I see specialty retail in particular. I think, I think it's different if your big box.
[11:29] SPEAKER_03: Something a little bit more transactional, but I think specialty retail still has a lot of life
[11:35] SPEAKER_03: in it. And it's about finding different ways to engage with the customer, but we kind of need to
[11:41] SPEAKER_03: see how that plays out. So the sit and wait isn't necessarily, do you set a bad thing? It's about
[11:48] SPEAKER_03: what is the customer want? Because the customer like shopping in the metaverse? If so, then
[11:54] SPEAKER_01: then we'll explore it. But I'm not sure that they that they do yet.
[12:00] SPEAKER_00: You know, you grew up in a family business. And I mean, I always ask you about mentorship.
[12:07] SPEAKER_00: And when you think about family, obviously you think about parents, father, mother, whatever
[12:14] SPEAKER_00: being the mentors. But I'm interested, you know, is that really the case? Or did you get your mentors?
[12:23] SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think about my parents, I wouldn't necessarily, you know, I worked in the family business
[12:31] SPEAKER_00: for a while and then left can't think. So I'm not sure that I learned from them more than I
[12:40] SPEAKER_00: learned from a couple of other guys basically. What is it? How does it work in a successful family
[12:49] SPEAKER_03: business like him? Well, thank you for putting on this. You're still here after a while.
[12:57] SPEAKER_03: I'm still here. Yes. That's success. So I think, I mean, like obviously like anybody,
[13:04] SPEAKER_03: parents have a huge influence on who you are, right? So I think what they have absolutely
[13:13] SPEAKER_03: instead of upon both me and my sister who runs our foundation is our values, which are really
[13:21] SPEAKER_03: important values for the business. And I think a big part of our success. So community relationships.
[13:29] SPEAKER_03: And I really can't emphasize the importance of the relationships when it comes to when it comes
[13:35] SPEAKER_03: to the business. So all of those things are things that they have absolutely sort of taught us
[13:43] SPEAKER_03: growing up, but also demonstrated in how they ran the business. So I'll always speak to, you know,
[13:51] SPEAKER_03: my father, I've learned a lot from him in terms of how he ran the business, in terms of how he
[13:57] SPEAKER_03: treated people and how he would make a deal, he loved to make deals, but the way that he, you know,
[14:06] SPEAKER_03: sort of, yeah, the way he did it, right, was very, was very unique and really
[14:14] SPEAKER_03: very endearing. And that led to the long-term success of the business. But there's also things now
[14:22] SPEAKER_03: that the world is very different. And so there's things that that we do very differently.
[14:29] SPEAKER_03: Retail in particular is very different as we were talking about previously from when my father
[14:34] SPEAKER_03: was running the business to what it is today. It used to be about, you know, putting as much
[14:39] SPEAKER_03: inventory as you possibly could in the store stacking it as high as possible and people would come
[14:43] SPEAKER_03: in and buy it. It's just not that straightforward anymore. And so when it comes to understanding
[14:49] SPEAKER_03: modern business, modern leadership, I'm like anybody else surrounding myself by lots of other people
[14:57] SPEAKER_03: who can, you know, give me advice. And I looked at lots of other people to understand, you know,
[15:06] SPEAKER_03: different ways in which we can run the business today. What do you see as a key piece of advice?
[15:13] SPEAKER_00: And let's stay in retail because that's really the knowledge base that you bring. What advice
[15:20] SPEAKER_00: do you give? Because we have lots of people that are thinking about going in and being an entrepreneur.
[15:27] SPEAKER_00: If they're thinking about going into the retail space, what advice would you give them,
[15:34] SPEAKER_00: you know, as a starting a business or thinking of starting a business? I mean, I know you are
[15:40] SPEAKER_00: there at the start, but you know, I think you have to restart every decade. Absolutely.
[15:47] SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm not sure it's really that different than any other business and some of the basic
[15:55] SPEAKER_03: principles, right, surround yourself by people who are smarter than you. It's important that you can
[16:00] SPEAKER_03: let your ego go by the wayside. For me, what's been really helpful is that I came in to the
[16:08] SPEAKER_03: business not claiming to be a retail expert. And so I was able to ask questions and still do to
[16:14] SPEAKER_03: say, you know, why do we do things this way? Because I think retail has a very, there's a lot of
[16:20] SPEAKER_03: legacy in retail. And this is just the way we've always done it. And so to be able to question that
[16:26] SPEAKER_03: and have somebody, you know, I consider myself while I'm not a retail expert, I think I'm smart
[16:30] SPEAKER_03: enough that if somebody can't explain it to me, sort of in a few sentences, I can say something
[16:36] SPEAKER_03: doesn't feel right here. Let's rethink that. And I think in retail right now, you have to be really
[16:40] SPEAKER_03: open to that. And then I would go back to the to the comment I said earlier about relationships
[16:49] SPEAKER_03: over like time and time again throughout our history. And especially in the last few years,
[16:53] SPEAKER_03: throughout COVID and supply chain constraints, being able to draw on those relationships,
[17:01] SPEAKER_03: whether it's with our customers, with our suppliers, with the bank, never underestimate those
[17:07] SPEAKER_03: relationships. And when you're going to need to draw on those and to invest in them well before
[17:17] SPEAKER_00: you need, before you need to actually, you know, draw on them. If you had to pick a word to describe
[17:24] SPEAKER_03: yourself, what would it be and why? A polite word. Resilient. Resilient would be the word.
[17:38] SPEAKER_03: And it's why I do. I've always been somebody that's managed to pick myself back up again and keep
[17:44] SPEAKER_03: going. And again, the last few years, it's to be able to keep going through this. We do that,
[17:50] SPEAKER_00: we all hit challenges. Is it some kind of process that Jillian has when you hit that wall,
[17:59] SPEAKER_03: shit, I got to solve how? Yeah. Well, so some would call that stubbornness,
[18:10] SPEAKER_03: pigheadedness. Determination, perseverance, depends on how you want to look at it. I'm somebody that
[18:15] SPEAKER_03: just says, there's always got to be a way. We're going to figure this out. And I'm a believer
[18:20] SPEAKER_03: in having a North Star. And you have that North Star and you may not know exactly how you're going to
[18:25] SPEAKER_03: get there. So one way doesn't work, you try another, but you just, you just keep, you keep going,
[18:31] SPEAKER_00: because or word is the only option. You're a morning or a night person. I ask everyone that.
[18:39] SPEAKER_03: I'm a mid morning person. I always feel like morning or night is too extreme. I'm not a five
[18:44] SPEAKER_03: a.m.mer. But I don't, but I'm a, but I, but I like to be productive in the morning,
[18:49] SPEAKER_00: not in the evening. Okay.
[18:59] SPEAKER_00: A bit back to the mentor thing. What would you say is the best piece of advice you've ever received?
[19:06] SPEAKER_00: You can kind of carry it around in Europe pocket, you know.
[19:09] SPEAKER_03: Um, that being, and I think it's the same whether it's a CEO, a leader and entrepreneur,
[19:17] SPEAKER_03: is a marathon and not a sprint. You got to pace yourself and take care of yourself.
[19:27] SPEAKER_02: And I'm curious. What you see is the big, I mean, what do you really see as the big opportunity
[19:36] SPEAKER_00: in your particular segment in retail? And I was going to say five years, but I'm not going to,
[19:42] SPEAKER_00: because we don't, we don't know what time it is. The next, you know,
[19:46] SPEAKER_00: the next week, 24 or 36 months, 24 months.
[19:51] SPEAKER_03: For us, what I'm really excited about is the growth of content creation. So this podcast is
[19:57] SPEAKER_03: a perfect example, right? We're doing this, um, right with video, we're doing it with audio.
[20:03] SPEAKER_03: It's being streamed on multiple different platforms. So content creation, whether it's podcasting,
[20:08] SPEAKER_03: YouTube, and TikTok, and Instagram, all of that is new and exciting. And for us, I think it's
[20:15] SPEAKER_03: really fun is that this is a new, it's a new customer segment that is developing, like we're all
[20:22] SPEAKER_03: developing at the same time together. So nobody's serving this, this community, particularly well.
[20:27] SPEAKER_03: And we're all trying to figure out how to do that as it emerges, because if, you know, a few
[20:34] SPEAKER_00: years ago, there, you, you, you, you, you know, a few years ago, and I grew up in the media business.
[20:39] SPEAKER_00: And here I am doing National Broadroom, right, right. From my, you know, not from there.
[20:45] SPEAKER_00: Exactly. You can't see what's behind. So, um, it's so different, you know, the last five years,
[20:52] SPEAKER_00: really. Yeah. Maybe you could say it's secure as well. And what, what, what, you know,
[21:04] SPEAKER_00: there is change. What's the most exciting piece of change? Let's say in your business,
[21:15] SPEAKER_00: that you think, you talked a little bit about it with the content side, but I'm sort of talking more
[21:22] SPEAKER_00: that's kind of the commerce side of it as well. But I'm talking more on the transaction side,
[21:30] SPEAKER_00: the, the experience side, not, not in terms of what, what you're selling, but in terms of, you
[21:38] SPEAKER_03: know, the customer experience with, with you. I think what is great is that the customer now has far
[21:50] SPEAKER_03: more knowledge and is more educated and the customer is in the driver's seat. And so while
[21:58] SPEAKER_03: not everybody loves that, I think it creates a whole new opportunity to be able to serve people
[22:04] SPEAKER_03: to be able to understand what the customer wants. And I think that the business is that are connected,
[22:11] SPEAKER_03: well connected to their customer and understands them. Then really have an opportunity to thrive
[22:18] SPEAKER_03: into succeed. And I think that somewhere where, again, whether it's Henry's or specialty retail,
[22:24] SPEAKER_03: or retail in general has a really great opportunity ahead of them.
[22:34] SPEAKER_02: What's keeping you up at night?
[22:37] SPEAKER_01: My kids.
[22:41] SPEAKER_00: Not for me, kids.
[22:45] SPEAKER_03: I, you know, I think there's still a lot of, it's a lot of uncertainty, right? How are things
[22:49] SPEAKER_03: going to unfold? We're still dealing with supply chain. And nobody's totally clear on how that's
[22:56] SPEAKER_03: going to unfold or ultimately where, what that's going to look like in the end, like in the
[23:01] SPEAKER_03: electronic space, it's still, it's still a lot, a big unknown. So for us, that's, that's really big.
[23:09] SPEAKER_03: And, you know, the economy, what's going to happen there? How is that going to impact the
[23:15] SPEAKER_03: consumer demand? It's, there's just, there's a lot of uncertainty in the world. So trying to,
[23:21] SPEAKER_03: as you said, you know, the question about like, what's the business going to look like in five years,
[23:26] SPEAKER_03: there's a lot of big question marks out there.
[23:30] SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
[23:33] SPEAKER_00: Let's move on to the mental health thing. I don't want to, to, you know, we touch something
[23:39] SPEAKER_00: briefly, but, you know, why did you decide to kind of, you know, step out and say, hey, you know,
[23:51] SPEAKER_00: we've, you know, lived with, with mental health in generations of,
[23:56] SPEAKER_00: the, the, the Stein family kind of thing. We're, what, what did you decide that?
[24:03] SPEAKER_03: So the, the trigger, defining moment, was I was at a funeral, somebody that I know had died by
[24:13] SPEAKER_03: suicide. And I was at the funeral and, and this was maybe four years ago, five years ago. So not
[24:20] SPEAKER_03: that long ago. And the, nobody at the funeral talked about why this, this woman. So a mother, a wife,
[24:29] SPEAKER_03: a daughter, nobody spoke about how she passed away. And I was just floored that in this day and age,
[24:37] SPEAKER_03: we think we talk about mental health, nobody would talk about it. And how are you supposed to,
[24:44] SPEAKER_03: learn from it, how are you supposed to, how's your family supposed to grieve, how do you move on,
[24:48] SPEAKER_03: if you can't talk about it? And, and maybe, you know, and obviously if, if it had been,
[24:55] SPEAKER_03: clearly there was some, there was, there was some stigma in this family that they couldn't talk
[24:59] SPEAKER_03: about it. And therefore couldn't have helped before this happened. And I just remember sitting
[25:05] SPEAKER_03: there thinking, we are a successful family in the world of, I guess, from up, you know,
[25:14] SPEAKER_03: where you define success, right? As a successful business, successful business owners, with, with
[25:21] SPEAKER_03: sort of the, like long term credibility behind us. And thinking about me personally,
[25:27] SPEAKER_03: thinking about our family, just thought if we don't talk about it, then like, we're just perpetuating
[25:34] SPEAKER_03: the same, the same stigma to continue. And so for me, I mean, that I said that was four or five
[25:41] SPEAKER_03: years ago, it took me a long, a long time to get up the corner to actually do it. Because you sort
[25:46] SPEAKER_03: of think, well, why is it that nobody else has done it? But ultimately, to me, I just, I felt that
[25:51] SPEAKER_03: I have a platform and that I need to use that and to show people that you can be successful.
[25:58] SPEAKER_03: So it doesn't need to hold you back, but you do need to talk about it and you do need to get
[26:03] SPEAKER_03: help and support to be able to do that. And so I thought I really needed to, to set that example.
[26:09] SPEAKER_00: So on that run, Julian, that's why I wanted to talk to you, just say someone's listened to this,
[26:13] SPEAKER_00: and say, what can I do? Where can they go to help you? Basically.
[26:19] SPEAKER_03: Well, I'd say it's a challenge right now. Our healthcare system is really not, not set up for this.
[26:28] SPEAKER_03: So, I mean, I can plug, there's the Henry's foundation, I think, is a good place to start. So
[26:38] SPEAKER_03: it does have a number of resources on the website that can sort of guide you to where you may be,
[26:43] SPEAKER_03: where you may be looking. But I always say just talk to somebody, whether it's your family doctor,
[26:48] SPEAKER_03: a friend, someone at work, do you have a check to see if you have an EAP program at work or,
[26:53] SPEAKER_03: you know, at school, talk to somebody. That's the most important thing is to start talking.
[27:02] SPEAKER_00: That's great. You know, we're at my time. I'm looking at, I could talk.
[27:11] SPEAKER_00: But if someone's heard something, now how can they get a hold of you, Julian? What's the sort of
[27:17] SPEAKER_03: the public way to get a hold of you? The easiest way is to add LinkedIn. So, Julian with a G.
[27:25] SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much for coming out and can this podcast. It's a lot of fun, really, really
[27:30] SPEAKER_03: good meeting you. Yeah, thank you for having me fill up. This was great.