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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_02: It's Toronto's podcast on the Canada's podcast network.
[00:10] SPEAKER_02: Hi, this is Lesson Demlal with Canada's podcast, The Nation's Number One Entrepreneurial
[00:14] SPEAKER_02: Network.
[00:15] SPEAKER_02: Today I have the pleasure of speaking with Michael McNaught.
[00:18] SPEAKER_02: He's the founder of RVEZ Canada's largest and most affordable RV rental marketplace
[00:24] SPEAKER_02: that connects vacationers with RV owners across the country.
[00:28] SPEAKER_02: So welcome, Michael.
[00:29] SPEAKER_02: Can I call you Michael or Mike?
[00:31] SPEAKER_02: They both work.
[00:32] SPEAKER_02: I answered a vote with my question.
[00:33] SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me.
[00:34] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm welcome.
[00:36] SPEAKER_02: Just tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.
[00:40] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so again, my name is Michael McNaught, founder of RVEZ.com.
[00:45] SPEAKER_00: And what we are to make it really easy to understand, essentially think Airbnb for RVs.
[00:52] SPEAKER_00: So what we do is we enable RV owners, so whether you own a motor home or a travel trailer,
[00:57] SPEAKER_00: to rent that RV out to other people that are looking to go on vacation, and what we provide
[01:03] SPEAKER_00: is we provide all the insurance, the background checks, just the real structure and security
[01:08] SPEAKER_00: to enable RV owners to essentially make some money off an asset that's quite expensive.
[01:14] SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times it's in the driveway for 11 months out of the year.
[01:19] SPEAKER_02: How did you get into this area of expertise, Michael?
[01:23] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I look back at my youth and upbringing.
[01:27] SPEAKER_00: I've always been passionate of the outdoors.
[01:31] SPEAKER_00: Huge fishermen.
[01:32] SPEAKER_00: Spend my youth as a canoe guide in Northern Ontario.
[01:37] SPEAKER_00: In my teenage years, school would end and I'd be living in the bush doing canoe trips
[01:41] SPEAKER_00: for 10 weeks or so.
[01:44] SPEAKER_00: I've always been passionate about the outdoors and it's been my whole life.
[01:49] SPEAKER_00: So I started getting into RV, having a young family.
[01:52] SPEAKER_00: It's just a nice way of going camping and having a few more luxuries.
[01:58] SPEAKER_00: And in the buying in RV, I want to say it was about six years ago now.
[02:02] SPEAKER_00: Time really flies by.
[02:03] SPEAKER_00: And the idea behind it was I got a really good deal on it and thought, maybe I can use it this summer.
[02:10] SPEAKER_00: And I wonder if there's a market and I can rent it out.
[02:12] SPEAKER_00: I've always been very entrepreneurial.
[02:14] SPEAKER_00: I got a couple of rental properties and thought, you know, why can't I rent it this winter?
[02:19] SPEAKER_00: I finally rented it out and I made $15,000 for summer.
[02:24] SPEAKER_00: And like the light bulb just immediately went off and said,
[02:27] SPEAKER_00: there seems to be a really big opportunity here.
[02:30] SPEAKER_00: So I kind of did a bit of market research and I looked in really the only other option
[02:35] SPEAKER_00: to rent a motor home would be go to a fleet dealership that has, you know,
[02:40] SPEAKER_00: a thousand RVs that they rent out and their price point was literally twice what I was charging.
[02:46] SPEAKER_00: So I was very happy and happy with the money that I was making and thought,
[02:50] SPEAKER_00: well, why is there such a price difference?
[02:52] SPEAKER_00: And the reason really was the tools were not available for our deal was to go private.
[02:57] SPEAKER_00: Right?
[02:58] SPEAKER_00: There was no insurance policy in place.
[03:00] SPEAKER_00: There's no safety security.
[03:02] SPEAKER_00: Even the financial transactions being a former police officer,
[03:06] SPEAKER_00: watching people send me thousands of dollars over the internet with no security.
[03:11] SPEAKER_00: And just, you know, like that ultimate entrepreneurship question,
[03:14] SPEAKER_00: like there had to be a better way.
[03:16] SPEAKER_00: And we thought, well, why don't we build something to enable owners to do exactly what I'm doing?
[03:22] SPEAKER_02: Yeah. So I know you have a bit of a backstory and you were a police officer with the AutoAid Police Service.
[03:30] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[03:30] SPEAKER_02: Can you tell us a little bit about that kind of transition?
[03:33] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
[03:34] SPEAKER_00: So I started my policing career, spent two years in Edmonton with the Edmonton Police Service.
[03:40] SPEAKER_00: Managed to make my way back home to Ottawa and join the Ottawa Police Service.
[03:45] SPEAKER_00: You know, did a ton of police work, loved my career,
[03:49] SPEAKER_00: did a lot of frontline police work in the downtown core, worked out in the East neighborhood unit,
[03:54] SPEAKER_00: and kind of finished a couple years in the internet trial exploitation unit.
[03:59] SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, back in 2016,
[04:01] SPEAKER_00: I ended up working a shift on the road and ended up getting called,
[04:06] SPEAKER_00: had a call for service, went to make an arrest, and ended up being just one of those
[04:11] SPEAKER_00: situations in policing, sometimes you're running to.
[04:14] SPEAKER_00: I ended up getting in a pretty big fight with the guy I was resting and got injured.
[04:19] SPEAKER_00: So I ended up rupturing my biceps so that tendon ripped right off the bone.
[04:24] SPEAKER_00: And required it was about three to five months of rehab, surgery, and recovery.
[04:30] SPEAKER_00: And you know, being very entrepreneurial and not being someone who likes to sit still,
[04:36] SPEAKER_00: thought, well, I'm off work for five months and getting paid.
[04:39] SPEAKER_00: I think I have this great idea in my head.
[04:42] SPEAKER_00: This would be a great time to get something out in the market, test the market,
[04:46] SPEAKER_00: and see are people interested in willing to use this product?
[04:51] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, see, Julie made lemonade out of lemons.
[04:55] SPEAKER_00: That's just it.
[04:56] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, one of the really interesting things, and this is what I love,
[04:59] SPEAKER_00: that in hindsight and retrospective is, I remember the day we ended up pitching on
[05:04] SPEAKER_00: Dragonsten, and the day that we filmed the Dragonsten was literally one year to the date that I
[05:11] SPEAKER_00: went injured. So it was kind of one of those things where you look back over 365 days, a year's
[05:18] SPEAKER_00: pretty short, and we managed to went from being injured to standing in front of the cannabis
[05:24] SPEAKER_00: top investors filmed a TV show. So it's pretty amazing what you can accomplish in a year.
[05:30] SPEAKER_00: If you really understand what you want to do in a passionate enough of what you're product.
[05:35] SPEAKER_02: You really have to have a good plan and good people behind you, and be really okay.
[05:40] SPEAKER_02: So it's amazing that you accomplished that in a year.
[05:42] SPEAKER_00: It was pretty, pretty quick, and it was really good, you know, and say,
[05:46] SPEAKER_00: there's just one of those moments you look back and you're like, wow, it's pretty impressive.
[05:49] SPEAKER_00: What you can accomplish in a year, and I think, you know, most entrepreneurs are out there
[05:53] SPEAKER_00: like your head's down and you're just working hard and time flies by, and sometimes it's hard
[05:59] SPEAKER_01: to celebrate the successes that you have. So it's one of those moments where you can look back and say,
[06:04] SPEAKER_01: wow, you never accomplished that great deal in a 100 year.
[06:08] SPEAKER_02: So was it when you were starting out? Was it just you or did you have a partner?
[06:12] SPEAKER_00: So I did have a partner, and I think again, like for all entrepreneurs, I think it's something
[06:17] SPEAKER_00: really important is to really find a co-founder, find someone to kind of join the crazy journey
[06:25] SPEAKER_00: of entrepreneurship with you. Pretty important to have that person, that's ideas off,
[06:30] SPEAKER_01: to be able to have conflict and resolve it, and just have someone to support you for the first time.
[06:36] SPEAKER_01: So I did have a partner, Will Thompson's my partner, been there since the beginning, and it's been
[06:42] SPEAKER_01: pretty, pretty great for me to last, I guess almost four years now.
[06:46] SPEAKER_02: So I have a question for you, do you think entrepreneurs are wired differently?
[06:50] SPEAKER_02: Do you think anything else makes this day?
[06:53] SPEAKER_00: 100%. I always laugh, like I've always been very entrepreneurial, even in my policing career,
[07:00] SPEAKER_00: any opportunity that I saw that I could buy something and flip it for more than I bought it for
[07:06] SPEAKER_00: started business. I was always doing those things, and I'd say most police officers are not
[07:13] SPEAKER_00: super entrepreneurial, so I always felt like I don't understand why these people don't think the same
[07:19] SPEAKER_00: way I do. And now being an entrepreneur and being surrounded by people similar to me, like it's like,
[07:24] SPEAKER_00: oh I'm not that abnormal, there's an entire community of people that thinks in way I do.
[07:29] SPEAKER_00: So I think we're definitely wired differently, different passions and different things that drive
[07:35] SPEAKER_00: us. I was never wanting to get home from a shift that worked in front of the TV and kind of
[07:40] SPEAKER_00: had Jennifer come a couple hours. I was always trying to look for an opportunity to really
[07:45] SPEAKER_01: to make money. I always like that theory of, well I'm sleepy, I want to be making money.
[07:53] SPEAKER_00: So what can I do in my time off to enable that? That's one of my focuses right now too.
[08:01] SPEAKER_00: That whole passive income, right? Exactly. Working for me, and if I was to lose my job, lose all my income
[08:10] SPEAKER_00: today, could I continue the lifestyle that I enjoy? Switching gears a little, but you are based out
[08:17] SPEAKER_02: of Ottawa, right? That's correct. Yeah, but RV Easy is kind of spread all over the country at this
[08:23] SPEAKER_00: point. Yes, we're all across Canada. Red, it's all wet-based and that-based, but I was, our
[08:30] SPEAKER_00: viewers anywhere across the country, can rent it out. And clearly, like every, one nice thing is I
[08:36] SPEAKER_00: just happen to have lived in almost every province in Canada. So if you're understanding kind of
[08:42] SPEAKER_00: different dynamics in different places, and it's really beneficial, because then you can really
[08:47] SPEAKER_00: understand the nuances of living in Calgary versus Edmonton. What is their season like? And
[08:55] SPEAKER_00: what do people want to go see in Alberta versus maybe the GPA? So I think you can
[09:00] SPEAKER_00: self-realize really well. And being in Ottawa, like we have great access fully bilingual,
[09:07] SPEAKER_00: which is really nice, so we can really serve our French Canadians well. But it makes it easy in
[09:13] SPEAKER_00: this digital economy to kind of reach out and touch people all over the world. Absolutely. So
[09:18] SPEAKER_02: are there any benefits other than the bilingual aspects of doing business in Ottawa? Is there
[09:24] SPEAKER_02: anything that you would recommend to other entrepreneurs doing business in Ottawa? I could say one
[09:29] SPEAKER_00: nice thing about living in Ottawa is just we have pretty close relationships with a lot of the
[09:34] SPEAKER_00: government programs. It's our as far as finding is concerned and just support mechanisms being in
[09:40] SPEAKER_00: Ottawa, a lot of federal government employees. We tend to have a lot of great access to some of
[09:46] SPEAKER_00: those people. I'd say the challenging part is that our biggest competition for employers is the
[09:53] SPEAKER_00: federal government. So they tend to scoop up a lot of employees looking for something stable and
[10:00] SPEAKER_00: definitely working from a startup environment is very challenging. You learn very quickly,
[10:06] SPEAKER_01: but you never have that stability of the federal government, you know, works 30 years,
[10:10] SPEAKER_01: getting attention from the likes. It's definitely a different mentality, but I guess I would be
[10:15] SPEAKER_02: the one challenging. Totally. So you guys have an office base in Ottawa, then? Yes, that's great.
[10:23] SPEAKER_02: Do you have any other offices across the country or just in Ottawa? No, currently just in the
[10:28] SPEAKER_00: Ottawa. We have about 40 employees here at the office and growing daily it seems like. There's
[10:34] SPEAKER_00: always new faces walking around us. Joking the other day, I think we have to start wearing name tags
[10:38] SPEAKER_00: just so we can recognize everyone in the office. And that it grew rather quickly then?
[10:43] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, and it really goes with the season, right? And we kind of get a bit of a forecast of
[10:49] SPEAKER_00: what our needs are like. Because if you think a double-sided marketplace, you have to build your
[10:54] SPEAKER_00: supply and your demand kind of in tandem at the same time. We have a really heavy focus on building
[11:01] SPEAKER_00: that supply, you know, between the last six months of the year, because we need that supply to
[11:07] SPEAKER_00: fulfill the demand for the next year. It's really that delicate balance, so we can kind of predict
[11:13] SPEAKER_00: a bit what our summer is going to be like and be able to staff accordingly. So it's
[11:16] SPEAKER_00: we're growing just as fast as we're kind of growing on the website as well.
[11:21] SPEAKER_00: And it's nice to keep up with that. It is like like a lot of people don't realize like how
[11:29] SPEAKER_00: popular the outdoors is. And I need to, you know, a lot of the younger generations too are kind of
[11:36] SPEAKER_00: opting for more of an experience rather than going and renting a cottage. They want to go on
[11:41] SPEAKER_00: a motorhome trip where they want to rent a trailer and go and use it's festival. And like it
[11:47] SPEAKER_00: blows everybody away, but there's over two million RVs in Canada. Like that's one out of every six
[11:53] SPEAKER_00: houses has an RV. Like it's a mind-boggling number when you start to think about the sheer volume of it.
[12:00] SPEAKER_00: Right? There's over eight million individual trips every year in an RV. So it's it's really a market
[12:06] SPEAKER_00: when we step back and look at it. It's a really underserved market that hasn't really adapted
[12:12] SPEAKER_00: with the growing digital economy. So it was really a matter of perfect timing and perfect opportunity
[12:18] SPEAKER_02: to kind of jump in. So I just want to know a little bit about the future, your future vision for
[12:24] SPEAKER_02: the business. So what would you say your vision has for the next five years? Five years. It's
[12:30] SPEAKER_00: hard to look a week down the road. Okay. Okay. So let's do yours. You look at the first couple of
[12:36] SPEAKER_00: years of our business and it was really proving out the business model. So kind of from day one,
[12:41] SPEAKER_00: the question that we always wanted to answer was, are people willing to do this? We know that RV
[12:46] SPEAKER_00: owners being an owner myself, like I you're always concerned about are people going to be damaging my
[12:52] SPEAKER_00: my asset and my really expensive RV. So the first couple of years was definitely proving the business
[12:58] SPEAKER_00: model, making sure owners are happy and it's working and really serving those early adopters.
[13:05] SPEAKER_00: Now if you were looking at the next three years, it's really going to be carving our path of
[13:11] SPEAKER_00: profitability and growth at the same time. It's difficult to focus on growth and profitability
[13:16] SPEAKER_00: at the same time, but we want to be able to ensure that we can build and grow a sustainable business.
[13:23] SPEAKER_00: So a lot of it is just developing efficiencies within our employees, our staff, our processes
[13:30] SPEAKER_00: to ensure everyone is getting served properly and that the business has a strategic path to long-term
[13:37] SPEAKER_02: success. So what are the top three things on your bucket list right now for your business?
[13:45] SPEAKER_01: What are your top priorities? Yeah, so specifically like this time of year, really what we're
[13:53] SPEAKER_01: building is we're building a platform and an ability for RV owners to conduct their own small
[14:00] SPEAKER_00: list. My vision for the product side really really develop all the tools and mechanisms that
[14:08] SPEAKER_00: can enable our owners to conduct their business efficiently and independently. You know if they want
[14:14] SPEAKER_00: to make money, say renting a canoe along the fair RV, they should have that ability, they should
[14:20] SPEAKER_00: have their ability to charge their sales tax, to make changes, to kind of really have a one
[14:26] SPEAKER_00: center place where they can conduct their business on their own. They don't really need our support.
[14:31] SPEAKER_00: So right now it's definitely building the infrastructure and the tools for our owners and workers.
[14:40] SPEAKER_00: And then from the business side, it's really building, you want to build a world-class platform.
[14:45] SPEAKER_00: So we've really invested heavily into our technology and our development,
[14:49] SPEAKER_00: make things faster, make the user experience easier. Just have a really beautiful, great world-class
[14:56] SPEAKER_00: product and that takes a lot of work. You know, from my police days and then coming over here,
[15:02] SPEAKER_00: it's totally different world technology and technology changes month by month. So it's
[15:08] SPEAKER_00: keeping up with the technology and just building something that's true before the class and then
[15:14] SPEAKER_00: having the efficiencies in the world. All of our different departments that it's just really
[15:19] SPEAKER_00: a key thing. Running employee committed and just a great culture for people to work.
[15:24] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely. So what's the greatest challenge that you face in your business to date?
[15:30] SPEAKER_00: The greatest challenge is the rate of growth. You know, if you look at an established business,
[15:38] SPEAKER_00: if you're growing your business by 5% a year, that's a huge success. We're growing at 400% a year.
[15:46] SPEAKER_00: So how do you really forecast? It's very difficult to forecast the needs of the business.
[15:53] SPEAKER_00: Cash flow needs, growth needs. And you're growing at that rate. You're a totally different
[15:58] SPEAKER_00: business at the end of the year. But I'd say the biggest challenge would definitely be adapting to
[16:03] SPEAKER_00: a new reality in the year in. If we look a year ago and look at our technology and look at our staff
[16:10] SPEAKER_00: and look at our efficiencies, it's nowhere near what it is today. So it's constantly retooling all these
[16:17] SPEAKER_00: these decision-making decisions that you have to do based on your new reality. It's tough.
[16:22] SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a pretty easy job when you're growing 5% a year and you're just trying to squeeze
[16:26] SPEAKER_00: a little bit of different channels. The year it's gone on itself. Yeah, that's an incredible challenge.
[16:33] SPEAKER_02: What, how do you typically handle those challenges? When something pops up, how do you handle it?
[16:39] SPEAKER_00: And how do you recommend that other people? I'm 100% committed to the business. I'm so
[16:45] SPEAKER_00: with my partner. It's not a 9-5. I'm generally in the office 10-12 hours a day, 7 days a week.
[16:54] SPEAKER_00: So you really have to be in tune with the business and really
[16:59] SPEAKER_00: plan, right? So having planning sessions, making sure we have our KPIs and everyone's held accountable
[17:06] SPEAKER_00: OKRs within the entire organization just allows us to make the best decisions with the data that we have.
[17:14] SPEAKER_00: And you talk about two goals, another goal of the business as a whole is we want to make data-driven
[17:18] SPEAKER_00: decisions. Going the early days a lot of it is, it's got to feel, right? It's pre-wanted get
[17:26] SPEAKER_01: away from the I feel our decisions to the I know a lot of that data that we've collected and then
[17:33] SPEAKER_02: analyzed. Yeah, OK, so that's that's something that we're business owners as well. And that's
[17:40] SPEAKER_02: something that we make all the data-driven decisions of a lot of entrepreneurs do. The I feel and
[17:46] SPEAKER_02: they go on their get their get instincts. Did you have a mentor or something that helped you
[17:50] SPEAKER_02: realize you have to make these data-driven decisions that be successful? Yeah, so really early
[17:56] SPEAKER_00: days, you know, like I had never started a business of this magnitude, right? Like, right?
[18:02] SPEAKER_00: I've done a bunch of, you know, had a construction company and a fence and deck company, but
[18:06] SPEAKER_00: really nothing of this magnitude. It's probably the advice that I've got from anyone is to really
[18:11] SPEAKER_00: surround yourself by the experts, by the people that have been there and done that. And it just
[18:18] SPEAKER_00: really rely on them for that guidance and advice. So we very early on, we connected with
[18:25] SPEAKER_00: investor Ottawa, which is an entrepreneurship community here in Ottawa. It's a lot with their
[18:31] SPEAKER_00: mentors. Met with other very successful entrepreneurs and just kind of their brains.
[18:41] SPEAKER_00: And really, what I love about her is a lot of it is just, you have a feeling that you think you
[18:48] SPEAKER_00: need to make a certain decision and you're unsure about it. She can give you that reassurance being
[18:53] SPEAKER_00: like, yes, you're spending the right amount of money or you're not spending enough. You guys need
[18:58] SPEAKER_00: to spend more. You need to grow faster because she's done it. She understands what we're going through
[19:04] SPEAKER_01: because often you don't have many people to lean on when you're growing like this.
[19:10] SPEAKER_02: So just on the topic of advice, what advice would you give to your 20-year-old self?
[19:16] SPEAKER_00: To my 20-year-olds self would definitely be to take risks or any 20-year-old with a business
[19:25] SPEAKER_00: idea is to take some risks. And like I like to call them calculated risks. It's interesting.
[19:32] SPEAKER_00: When we first started the website, first started the business, we had quotes, two to three hundred
[19:39] SPEAKER_00: thousand dollars to build a website. Which is great. I'm sure it would have been a fantastic product.
[19:46] SPEAKER_00: That is a huge risk. When you're throwing out $300,000 on an idea, you don't even know if it's
[19:52] SPEAKER_00: going to work. So instead, we opted for a much scaled down version. Probably we were in 25,
[20:00] SPEAKER_00: $30,000 and just through something out there, I needed to test the product. So it looked very
[20:06] SPEAKER_00: pretty. You pressed a button, though, and essentially sends me an email and I'm on the phone making
[20:11] SPEAKER_00: phone calls back and forth to see if people want to do it. So it's, and I hear it from a, like I speak
[20:17] SPEAKER_00: to a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of them are very, they hold on to their idea very closely,
[20:21] SPEAKER_00: not wanting to share it, worried someone's going to rip them off or steal their idea.
[20:27] SPEAKER_00: That is 100% the wrong thing to do. You need to share it with as many people as possible, get
[20:31] SPEAKER_00: feedback because you need to learn. It doesn't matter what you're selling, are people willing to buy
[20:37] SPEAKER_00: what you're providing. And if they're not, then it's probably a bad idea. But you need to test
[20:42] SPEAKER_00: that early on, share it, surround yourself by people that are just as driven and passionate as you
[20:48] SPEAKER_00: are. And that'll surely bring you on to that path of success.
[20:52] SPEAKER_02: So what's the best piece of advice that you ever received? And you touched on a little bit with
[20:56] SPEAKER_02: your mentor, but is there something that really stands out? Yeah, there is. There's one that really
[21:00] SPEAKER_00: stood out. It was interesting that they, you know, when we first started, what do we call the
[21:05] SPEAKER_00: business? Right? Like, what's the name of the business? We know the concept, we know the idea,
[21:10] SPEAKER_00: what's our name going to be? And we went out and got some branding companies that they gave us
[21:16] SPEAKER_00: quotes and we're talking like $40,000 to come up with the name and branding for the business.
[21:22] SPEAKER_00: Met with another tech entrepreneur, very successful, made a lot of money on an exit. And
[21:30] SPEAKER_00: what I was saying earlier, he's like, it doesn't matter what you call yourself. He's like, you can
[21:34] SPEAKER_00: be one, two, three RV. He's like, it doesn't matter what you call yourself. Are people willing to buy
[21:40] SPEAKER_00: your product? That's what you need to test. Don't waste your money on a beautiful name and logo
[21:47] SPEAKER_00: for something that nobody's willing to use. So kind of took that advice back and we did a
[21:53] SPEAKER_00: crowd sourcing campaign. I think we paid $500 to the winner and we just came up with this
[22:00] SPEAKER_00: logo. And it's kind of stuck ever since, which is kind of interesting that it's kind of turned into
[22:04] SPEAKER_00: it's turned into its own brand. But looking back, it really there was such good advice because I
[22:11] SPEAKER_00: would have been a huge waste of money and time developing the brand and the feel without even knowing
[22:17] SPEAKER_00: if people want to use your product. It's like that that really stood out to me and it was just
[22:21] SPEAKER_00: something that came from an experienced entrepreneur who's gone through the same steps that's made the
[22:26] SPEAKER_00: mistakes and kind of gave that advice to saying, guys, your main goal right now is to find out
[22:31] SPEAKER_00: whether people want to do this. If you act that question, yes, you can change the name of your
[22:36] SPEAKER_00: company anytime you want. And it was probably like one of the best pieces of it all Ice we got,
[22:42] SPEAKER_02: especially in the early days. So on that, like the minimum viable product, right? So that's what we
[22:47] SPEAKER_02: call that kind of test. How did you do that? What did you do to like prove that people wanted to buy
[22:52] SPEAKER_00: your product? Yeah, so the kind of took a lot of my personal experience first as kind of that
[22:58] SPEAKER_00: first initial test. You know, like I put a posting on Kijiji to rent my motorhome and what kind of
[23:06] SPEAKER_00: blew everybody away as I would post it in January and I would never repost it again. And I would rent
[23:12] SPEAKER_00: my entire year off that one post. So kind of showed that there was some sort of demand. And then
[23:19] SPEAKER_00: getting this this website up as quick as possible. And then the low hanging fruit I literally
[23:24] SPEAKER_00: spent every night for five hours calling everybody on Kijiji that had an RV for sale or for rent
[23:31] SPEAKER_00: and just talk to them and just talk to them, hey, would you be willing to do this? Why would you be
[23:36] SPEAKER_00: willing to what do you need in order to convince you to do it and really just gathered and started
[23:40] SPEAKER_00: building the supply up just organically. And of course, not very scalable, but very, very educational
[23:49] SPEAKER_00: and just again, help us understand whether people wanted to use this product or not. Once we
[23:54] SPEAKER_00: once we decided, yes, this is a good product, people want to use it, then it's time to invest in
[24:01] SPEAKER_02: the technology and start building into the capabilities. Yeah, so how long did it take you? Like, what
[24:07] SPEAKER_02: point did you kind of say, okay, this is right, let's invest and make that huge leave. I would say like
[24:17] SPEAKER_00: probably January 2017 because we launched the website beginning of August of 2016. So really,
[24:26] SPEAKER_00: you're at the tail end of the RV season, you're at the tail end of people booking their trips.
[24:32] SPEAKER_00: So you're really like you're really limited to the amount of people that are coming around.
[24:36] SPEAKER_00: But as soon as January hits, people start booking their vacations. That's when we started to really
[24:41] SPEAKER_00: see people picking up using the website, asking us questions and we couldn't keep up with the
[24:46] SPEAKER_00: demand. So they're ended up being a supply problem where we're like, okay, clearly this is going
[24:51] SPEAKER_00: to work. We have people coming to us and droves that just can't find what they're looking for.
[24:57] SPEAKER_00: And then we'd go out and try to find them exactly what they needed. And even in some circumstances,
[25:01] SPEAKER_00: I would go out and buy the RV and give it to them. Right. So just doing whatever we had to kind of
[25:07] SPEAKER_00: fulfill those customers. And I think that was pretty, pretty quickly into 2017. You said, okay,
[25:13] SPEAKER_00: there's a viable business here. People want to do this. Now we need to figure out how do we scale this?
[25:18] SPEAKER_00: How do we grow fast and quick? And how do we get the website up the speed? How do we get all those tools?
[25:25] SPEAKER_00: And so we ended up redoing the entire website essentially in the summer of 2017. That's been a
[25:32] SPEAKER_02: while joining. So now we're going to move into some rapid fire questions. And this is just to get
[25:39] SPEAKER_02: to know it's fine. It's really fine. Don't be too scared. But just don't think too much about
[25:44] SPEAKER_02: the question and just answer whatever comes to your mind first. If you weren't doing what you're
[25:49] SPEAKER_02: doing for work now, what would you be doing instead? I'd be a police officer. Yes, I figured.
[25:57] SPEAKER_02: What book are you currently reading? Blitz Scaling. Blitz Scaling. Yeah. What's that about?
[26:05] SPEAKER_00: Just different techniques on how to grow and scale your business quickly. And then I realized
[26:12] SPEAKER_00: I'm just starting it. But then I just finished a Bob Probert documentary. They call it hockey
[26:18] SPEAKER_00: Okay. Cool. Are you a morning or a night person? Both. I stay up late and I wake up early. Don't sleep.
[26:27] SPEAKER_02: If you could pick one word to describe yourself, what would it be? And what?
[26:33] SPEAKER_00: I'm going to say passionate. Anything I do I really buy into and I have a lot of passion
[26:40] SPEAKER_00: what I do and accountability. Really dive in deep and sick my teeth and whatever I'm doing.
[26:45] SPEAKER_02: What is keeping you at that night these days? If anything.
[26:51] SPEAKER_00: I'd say just the company in general, how do we continue to grow? It's just keeping up with everything.
[26:57] SPEAKER_02: There's so many things happening. There's so many moving parts and I can't imagine. You need to
[27:01] SPEAKER_02: really know your business super well to be able to keep up with all of those. Yeah, and again,
[27:07] SPEAKER_00: you grow at 400% and you're trying to project your year. So you know, it's a finger in the air and
[27:14] SPEAKER_00: like this is what we think is going to happen. So now it's making sure we're hitting all of our
[27:18] SPEAKER_02: targets and it definitely keeps me up. Yeah. Of course. What's your favorite place in the world?
[27:26] SPEAKER_00: That's a tough one. Anywhere in the outdoors. So I'd say my favorite place in the world would be
[27:32] SPEAKER_02: in a canoe in the middle of a gonquin park. Okay. So I just need to ask because I'm from Northern Ontario
[27:38] SPEAKER_02: and this is a personal thing. But I'm from Sudbury, widely. Did you ever do any canoe trips up there?
[27:45] SPEAKER_00: Not Sudbury. I did work in Tamagami. So a lot of it was like, yeah, so a lot of Lake Tamagami. I
[27:51] SPEAKER_00: spent many, many summers on the canoe routes up there are unbelievable. Yeah. And then the Perry
[27:57] SPEAKER_00: Sound Miscolca area. I grew up there. So I spent a ton of time up there. My brother was a
[28:08] SPEAKER_00: kerny in all around there. I love it up north. Yeah. I lived in Tamagami for a summer.
[28:13] SPEAKER_02: You lived in Tamagami? Yeah. So very cool. I just had to ask. What are three non-negotiables that have
[28:22] SPEAKER_00: to happen in your morning routine? Breakfast, the gym, I'm in the gym every morning and I'd
[28:30] SPEAKER_00: say my Tim Horton's coffee. Like I was even fidget toward this morning. I am very, very
[28:34] SPEAKER_00: predictable. I'm up at 630. I eat between 7 and 730. I'm in the gym by 8th and I get my coffee at 915
[28:43] SPEAKER_02: and it's clockwork. And you have to have it right? Because I'm like super similar to you but
[28:50] SPEAKER_02: you have to have it. If I don't have my coffee or my tea then I get totally screwed up. Yeah and it's
[28:56] SPEAKER_00: something I in the last year I've got back to. You know in my and again this this show is how
[29:02] SPEAKER_00: busy of a person I am. When I got injured I was finishing a university degree so taken three
[29:07] SPEAKER_00: class at university. I had 60 hours a week in policing. Married with three children and I was
[29:15] SPEAKER_00: competing in bodybuilding. So I was doing all that at the same time starting the business a lot of
[29:22] SPEAKER_00: that fell off the wayside because you're committed to something else. And so last year I made the
[29:28] SPEAKER_00: commitment that I want to get back into the gym and working out how I used to. I really enjoyed
[29:32] SPEAKER_00: that. So I've developed my morning routine and I do not stray away from it. So that hour
[29:39] SPEAKER_00: that hour hour and a half in the morning is kind of my time to commit to myself.
[29:45] SPEAKER_02: So this is this is a question just on that but what helps you kind of just disconnect from the
[29:52] SPEAKER_00: business and get those great ideas. I'd say it like I have tremendous family support.
[29:59] SPEAKER_00: My wife is extremely patient and equally as motivated as I am. And then three amazing kids at such a
[30:08] SPEAKER_00: white like I have a 14 year old, a 12 year old, then a six year old. So like they're able to just
[30:14] SPEAKER_00: disconnect me from the business. I get to play video games with my 14 year old and watch cartoons
[30:20] SPEAKER_00: with a six year old. So it really allows me to disconnect and just kind of unwind a bit and enjoy
[30:26] SPEAKER_00: life, which is the whole reason why we're doing all this, right? Yeah, absolutely. It really matters.
[30:32] SPEAKER_02: So last question and it's not the least we asked everybody, everybody, every guest
[30:38] SPEAKER_02: who comes up to kid his podcast, we ask him this question. It's really interesting everyone's
[30:43] SPEAKER_02: answers but there's a small tropical island in the middle of the ocean just off the coast of Fiji.
[30:47] SPEAKER_02: But there's only one phone booth and no internet and we drop you off there with no technology at all.
[30:53] SPEAKER_02: At any time you can call us to get the boat to come pick you up. How long would you last?
[30:59] SPEAKER_02: And what would you do until you until you call us? Oh, I personally feel I could last a fairly long
[31:06] SPEAKER_00: time. But I probably call after about two weeks I think, right? I think that'd be long enough that I
[31:13] SPEAKER_00: I need people around me. I really enjoy the cup in minute of people and interactions and challenges.
[31:20] SPEAKER_00: I don't last very long on vacations. I find it's too long. A three to four day vacation is
[31:27] SPEAKER_00: plenty enough for me to kind of unwind and just recharge for the next next long time. Yeah,
[31:34] SPEAKER_02: sounds good. Thank you very much for that, Sam.
[31:38] SPEAKER_02: That answer and for talking to us and talking to all of our listeners about your experience.
[31:43] SPEAKER_00: No problem. So when do I get to go to this magical island?
[31:48] SPEAKER_02: Well, people will plan like a group trip for all the people who came to this podcast next year.
[31:53] SPEAKER_00: That'd be great. That's definitely where you're at. That'd be great.
[31:58] SPEAKER_02: So before we go do you have any last comments to invite to our listeners?
[32:03] SPEAKER_00: No, just just just really appreciate you having me here and you know,
[32:08] SPEAKER_00: if anyone listening, absolutely take risks in life. It only happens once.
[32:14] SPEAKER_00: And you know what, there's nothing wrong with failing along the way. We all do it.
[32:20] SPEAKER_00: And you know, you only live once. So take any opportunity that comes up and just be proud of all your
[32:25] SPEAKER_00: accomplishments. So we're going to listen to our online. So they can find us at rvc.com. So it's
[32:34] SPEAKER_00: rvz.y.com. And we're also found on the app store. So on Google Play or on the Apple store.
[32:42] SPEAKER_00: You can find our app there as well.
[32:45] SPEAKER_02: Awesome. Thank you so much, Michael. We'll be in touch soon and we're so blessed with
[32:50] SPEAKER_02: with everything in your growth. 400% growth. It's going to work.
[32:55] SPEAKER_00: Excellent. Thanks so much for having me, Leslie.
[32:57] SPEAKER_02: Thanks for listening to Canada's podcast. Like, comment and subscribe to all our channels to get
[33:02] SPEAKER_02: the latest podcasts from entrepreneurs across Canada.
