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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_00: This podcast is sponsored by eBay Canada.
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[00:19] SPEAKER_00: and you only pay fees when you sell.
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[00:26] SPEAKER_00: and access to powerful selling tools and insights.
[00:30] SPEAKER_00: Go to eBay.ca, forward slash, up and running, stay local and sell global.
[00:37] SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Canada's podcast, the number one podcast for entrepreneurs by entrepreneurs.
[00:45] SPEAKER_02: So Mark, welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:48] SPEAKER_02: It's great to see you.
[00:50] SPEAKER_02: As I normally do, I'm always really interested to tell you,
[00:53] SPEAKER_02: give us that three to five minute history of who Mark is and what you're doing today,
[01:02] SPEAKER_02: basically, and then we'll move into some of the other questions.
[01:07] SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
[01:07] SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for having me, Phil.
[01:10] SPEAKER_01: Pleasure to be here on a fine Friday, fall morning, originally from Born and Raised in
[01:14] SPEAKER_01: College Country on a lake up north in Halibird, and so this is one of our favorite times
[01:18] SPEAKER_01: of Europe.
[01:19] SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm Born and Raised in Scotland, so this is like summertime, so that's fine.
[01:25] SPEAKER_01: Having lived there once upon a time, there would have been parks that would be 17 degrees
[01:29] SPEAKER_01: and sunny and you'd have everyone having the little barbecues and shirts off in the parks
[01:33] SPEAKER_01: there.
[01:33] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
[01:34] SPEAKER_02: They're quite clean.
[01:36] SPEAKER_01: So I've been a passionate around as far as innovating strategy and distribution when
[01:42] SPEAKER_01: it comes to all things, financial services, my entire career for the last 20 years, since
[01:47] SPEAKER_01: leaving business school in 1999.
[01:50] SPEAKER_01: And, you know, in early days of my youth, I was a young front-off with Banker, Billing
[01:56] SPEAKER_01: Out, Distribution for a company that was called ING Direct, now Tangerine.
[02:02] SPEAKER_01: And that exposed me to the broader ecosystem when it came to all things, Fintech and financial
[02:08] SPEAKER_01: services.
[02:09] SPEAKER_01: And that was actually before Fintech was even coin Fintech, but that's where I really
[02:13] SPEAKER_01: grew my passion for innovating platforms, product, distribution strategy that was focused
[02:21] SPEAKER_01: on customers.
[02:23] SPEAKER_01: And since then, I've crossed over and worked at big cares and then on the property casually
[02:30] SPEAKER_01: space, developing distribution product, etc.
[02:35] SPEAKER_01: And then I was able to basically connect and meet with, you know, my leadership team at
[02:40] SPEAKER_01: Fintech School, while we were growing and scaling out, maybe our most proud Canadian Fintech
[02:46] SPEAKER_01: Girls story company called Real Matters, is based out here in Toronto, 2011 to an
[02:51] SPEAKER_01: toward NIPL 2017.
[02:54] SPEAKER_01: And what I was responsible for, the insurance vertical within that organization.
[02:58] SPEAKER_01: And what we were able to witness, Bear Witness 2 was basically the first, you know, generation,
[03:05] SPEAKER_01: that first wave of insure tax globally, which primarily focused on digitization of insurance.
[03:10] SPEAKER_01: Top line plays, you know, shiny objects around narrow focus around programs, etc.
[03:16] SPEAKER_01: And usually based on, you know, digitization of online, richer user experience, UX, etc.
[03:22] SPEAKER_01: Usually found it by other technology, you know, technology founders that had strong
[03:27] SPEAKER_01: exits and other realms that were learning insurance on the go.
[03:31] SPEAKER_01: So, and we watched that first wave and our team had its own problem within our, you know,
[03:38] SPEAKER_01: tech company, within the platform that hosted like and kind small businesses, about 200,000
[03:43] SPEAKER_01: across North America.
[03:45] SPEAKER_01: And in the last piece of the wrong boarding was, you know, showcasing their insurance and
[03:48] SPEAKER_01: have it fully right polished that met our requirements.
[03:51] SPEAKER_01: But they never ever, never ever did.
[03:53] SPEAKER_01: And so they'd have to walk back to a legacy broker network.
[03:56] SPEAKER_01: And if we saw them at all, it'd be a couple months later.
[03:58] SPEAKER_01: So it was a real challenge and problem around boarding process.
[04:02] SPEAKER_01: So we called out to the marketplace to solve the problem and ask them simply, can you not
[04:07] SPEAKER_01: integrate insurance to our platform and more importantly, customize and cascade at,
[04:12] SPEAKER_01: you know, powerful affinity offering to our like and kind network.
[04:16] SPEAKER_01: A very big multi-million dollar opportunity, but we'd never got a response back.
[04:21] SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't naive to that.
[04:23] SPEAKER_01: I didn't expect to have a response back from these big alpha houses or carriers in the
[04:27] SPEAKER_01: marketplace.
[04:27] SPEAKER_01: So that was a light bulb moment when I partnered and I'd say, hey, why can't I want we
[04:32] SPEAKER_01: basically go build the architecture and technology to join like and kind small business owners
[04:38] SPEAKER_01: and put them in front with purchasing power at every pillar of the life cycle, their
[04:43] SPEAKER_01: policy.
[04:44] SPEAKER_01: And that was the bottom line, underlying premise.
[04:46] SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we knew that we'd have roadblocks, and barriers and challenges, you know,
[04:51] SPEAKER_01: founding the company here in Toronto, Canada, because you got to go about a little bit longer
[04:55] SPEAKER_01: to do your office and bidders and have that measured success story on your way to basically
[05:01] SPEAKER_01: raise a capital whilst you're focused on building your architecture and attracting talent
[05:05] SPEAKER_01: to line to your vision, your vision of business model.
[05:10] SPEAKER_02: You've had a busy few years, but I mean, you know, I look to you in the background, you
[05:15] SPEAKER_02: know, why didn't you do it within, you know, Tangerine or Aviva or, you know, you've worth
[05:23] SPEAKER_02: some great companies, you know, why do on your own, why be coming on Truppardner, why
[05:30] SPEAKER_02: take that risk, because it's there, you know.
[05:34] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, that's always should be the first question that should offer a curiosity.
[05:41] SPEAKER_01: Why do people come become much more specific, why did I?
[05:45] SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I have to applaud all the great leaders that I worked with and for.
[05:51] SPEAKER_01: They gave me the, you know, the education, you know, how in the relationships to found
[05:56] SPEAKER_01: this company Foxwell without without some of those mentors, Foxwell doesn't exist.
[06:01] SPEAKER_01: But my passion for entrepreneurship started at a very young age, you know, I was born
[06:06] SPEAKER_01: and born into a family of entrepreneurs, my great grandfather and my great and my grandfather,
[06:12] SPEAKER_01: you know, built and found it, the lot, what would become the largest subterrain diamond
[06:18] SPEAKER_01: drilling contracting company in Canada.
[06:20] SPEAKER_01: And then an offshoot of a conglomerate of, you know, manufacturing and distribution companies
[06:25] SPEAKER_01: and others.
[06:27] SPEAKER_01: And so that family brand still exists under more set diamond drilling, but I learned, you
[06:33] SPEAKER_01: know, business and entrepreneurship and the values of basic how it starts and ends with
[06:39] SPEAKER_01: people, how to treat them with values of integrity, respect, curiosity, every morning
[06:46] SPEAKER_01: the breakfast table and the dinner table.
[06:49] SPEAKER_01: And you know, my, while I was always taught was basically pursue what you're passionate
[06:53] SPEAKER_01: about.
[06:54] SPEAKER_01: And when you have that passion and you've got a great idea or vision, then essentially
[06:59] SPEAKER_01: build a team around it that can align to that common purpose and vision.
[07:03] SPEAKER_01: Now I thought that I would be able to start this entrepreneur and I'm, you know, I
[07:07] SPEAKER_01: look a lot younger than I am.
[07:08] SPEAKER_01: I'm a middle aged guy with four kids.
[07:10] SPEAKER_01: So this journey I would have loved to have started in when I was 25.
[07:14] SPEAKER_01: It's about timing and an idea and having people around you to basically grow your,
[07:20] SPEAKER_01: and align to your vision, but grow the business.
[07:22] SPEAKER_01: I started my first company, ironically, when I was in business school, when I was 21,
[07:28] SPEAKER_01: my partner and I, with the not business, we, we, we basically subcontracted CN real
[07:34] SPEAKER_01: cars and we're shipping vehicles across North America together.
[07:38] SPEAKER_01: And he, he was, you know, I had a small minority sharing that company.
[07:43] SPEAKER_01: And, and I had about two years left to business school.
[07:46] SPEAKER_01: So I sold my shares thinking, I, you know, what, I'm going to go basically do this
[07:50] SPEAKER_01: all on my own right.
[07:52] SPEAKER_01: Eventually, when I have my own passion for what I want to do, my body,
[07:56] SPEAKER_01: since that has become a multi million dollar, just, just,
[08:00] SPEAKER_01: I miss that.
[08:03] SPEAKER_01: I didn't think about it all the way, but with the naivety because you're young and
[08:07] SPEAKER_01: full of, you know, vinegar, you think like five years later, you're going to find
[08:11] SPEAKER_01: that basic purpose.
[08:13] SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it comes a little later.
[08:15] SPEAKER_01: And then you're anchored into, you talk about risk, you're anchored into mortgage,
[08:18] SPEAKER_01: cottage, family, then it takes it a little, it becomes a little bit harder to assume that
[08:23] SPEAKER_02: it's tough once you get into that, into that sort of thing.
[08:28] Speaker UNKNOWN:
[08:29] SPEAKER_01: Because you've got to be, this is not something where it's, you know, these businesses
[08:33] SPEAKER_01: are not something to do that you can basically sit on a side hustler, do on the side.
[08:37] SPEAKER_01: You've got to be all in and fully commit it.
[08:40] SPEAKER_01: And then you know, everyone around you, you know, your, my wife, my extended family,
[08:45] SPEAKER_01: they, they know, and since I was a teenager, that had wanted to be an entrepreneur.
[08:50] SPEAKER_01: It's always been my, one of my, you know, purposes of, as far as I love business,
[08:55] SPEAKER_01: I love, you know, the people around making, ensuring a successful business and
[09:01] SPEAKER_01: growth story.
[09:02] SPEAKER_01: And it's all about leadership and assembly and all those different stakeholders and
[09:05] SPEAKER_01: people. So, you know, this is probably, we're having the most fun, my partner,
[09:09] SPEAKER_01: Krim Jamal and I are having so much fun right now.
[09:12] SPEAKER_01: We're going to year five of this business box quilt, but that's a good year to be
[09:18] SPEAKER_02: talking about.
[09:19] SPEAKER_02: You know, and if you're still talking about it, you're five, I think that's, that's a,
[09:23] SPEAKER_02: that's a good sign basically.
[09:25] SPEAKER_02: Well, for you, I mean, I think, you know, you brought up your family when you were
[09:30] SPEAKER_02: working. I mean, you explained a little bit, but I just want to kind of
[09:33] SPEAKER_02: just focus on for you, what's the best thing about being an entrepreneur versus
[09:38] SPEAKER_02: being, you know, a successful, you know, employee, basically.
[09:45] SPEAKER_01: Yeah. So I always start men with people when you're a tracking talent and you get
[09:50] SPEAKER_01: that you get basically now to forge the blueprint of all your intellectual
[09:55] SPEAKER_01: capital to the sale.
[09:56] SPEAKER_01: Okay. This is the vision and I'm more of a longer term vision guy, like to paint
[10:01] SPEAKER_01: and create that blueprint where I think the customer and the market is going.
[10:07] SPEAKER_01: And then allowing you to basically paint that canvas of creating the, you know,
[10:11] SPEAKER_01: the architecture, but more importantly, the people around it that are going to be
[10:14] SPEAKER_01: focused on basically painting that canvas and bringing them together at the start
[10:20] SPEAKER_01: of the journey, but allowing and forging this living, breathing culture to have
[10:26] SPEAKER_01: its genesis from day one.
[10:28] SPEAKER_01: And so I've been great, good fortune.
[10:31] SPEAKER_01: I've worked at some prolific companies under some great leaders.
[10:35] SPEAKER_01: And you get to learn and you get to basically steal and poach what you think are
[10:40] SPEAKER_01: the best practices from those various cultures and what you believe whole
[10:44] SPEAKER_01: heartily should be ingrained in what you're creating and within your
[10:48] SPEAKER_01: baby should be the, you know, the impetus of, you know, that living,
[10:53] SPEAKER_01: breathing culture that you want your people to foster.
[10:56] SPEAKER_01: So I, you know, criminally, we're, we're capitalists at the end of the day.
[11:02] SPEAKER_01: And we have, you know, we have big ambitions to create not just a hundred
[11:06] SPEAKER_01: million dollar company, but a billion dollar company that's trading and global
[11:10] SPEAKER_01: markets. Yeah, and we want to have a large return for our shareholders.
[11:14] SPEAKER_01: But we want to basically celebrate, you know, those young people that are
[11:19] SPEAKER_01: affording us to build this company in the journey, really teach and enlighten
[11:24] SPEAKER_01: and educate and, and make a difference in their careers.
[11:27] SPEAKER_01: And then at the end of the day, surprise them with stock, stock options
[11:32] SPEAKER_01: that are going to basically, you know, pay for a good chunk of their mortgage
[11:35] SPEAKER_01: or change their families, definitely want them to basically wake up in the
[11:40] SPEAKER_01: morning and leave work at the end of the day thinking, it's the best place I've
[11:44] SPEAKER_01: ever worked. So it's really about, I get passionate when I think about the
[11:48] SPEAKER_01: people and the culture.
[11:50] SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we were talking a little earlier, you know, and I was sort of
[11:54] SPEAKER_02: saying that you know, I didn't interviewed Ian Danish and Andrew, a couple of
[11:59] SPEAKER_02: other FinTech guys.
[12:03] SPEAKER_02: You know, what do you think?
[12:04] SPEAKER_02: I mean, you, the future of, let's just stick with the insurance FinTech
[12:10] SPEAKER_02: side of it because it's a big category.
[12:12] SPEAKER_02: What's the future?
[12:14] SPEAKER_02: What's the global vision, if you like, or at least the Canadian vision
[12:19] SPEAKER_02: of the insurance FinTech side of it, that you, that you're the third,
[12:24] SPEAKER_02: that you guys are pushing out there kind of thing?
[12:27] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we love our peer group.
[12:29] SPEAKER_01: We're, you know, we're close in touch and can become good friends, donners,
[12:33] SPEAKER_01: as insurance. I was on a panel with the policy me fellows as well.
[12:36] SPEAKER_01: So it's, we celebrate, have a lot of pride in their success because
[12:40] SPEAKER_01: with their success comes our success.
[12:41] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
[12:42] SPEAKER_01: Of course.
[12:43] SPEAKER_01: So it's a great fraternity.
[12:46] SPEAKER_01: I'm proud Canadian born and raised, but Canada, we suffer sometimes from
[12:51] SPEAKER_01: our, you know, our own basic systemic cultural, you know, we're proud to be
[12:57] SPEAKER_01: Canadian, which means we're usually a bit more conservative.
[13:01] SPEAKER_01: And, but, you know, Canada is, as I say to some of our, you know, our biggest
[13:06] SPEAKER_01: stakeholders are outside of our borders in Canada.
[13:09] SPEAKER_01: We are a dynamic trading place and marketplace with 10th largest GDP in the
[13:14] SPEAKER_01: world, but more importantly, we have an amazing people, rich academia and
[13:19] SPEAKER_01: capabilities right here in our hometown of Toronto, Warloo is a vibrant
[13:24] SPEAKER_01: ecosystem.
[13:25] SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
[13:26] SPEAKER_01: Data science and engineers and developers and strategists and marketers.
[13:31] SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the rest of the world has figured that out.
[13:35] SPEAKER_01: And basically, and we've taken great pride from the company that we just,
[13:39] SPEAKER_01: you know, came from the IPO 2017, doesn't just happen by mistake that was
[13:43] SPEAKER_01: basically built and scaled by Canadians.
[13:46] SPEAKER_01: So Canadians build dynamic platforms, trading platforms of technology.
[13:53] SPEAKER_01: And then we embrace other international stakeholders to help us basically
[13:58] SPEAKER_01: scale those offerings.
[13:59] SPEAKER_01: What's happening is that it's up to leaders like, you know, myself and
[14:04] SPEAKER_01: Donner's and others to open up, you know, our people and our culture and our,
[14:10] SPEAKER_01: in our marketplace to the rest of the world.
[14:12] SPEAKER_01: And basically, you say like, Hey, it's not about the old way we're basically
[14:17] SPEAKER_01: going to, you know, use foreign money to scale this growth and business model.
[14:21] SPEAKER_01: And then basically, you know, exit to a foreign entity doesn't always have to be
[14:25] SPEAKER_01: that way.
[14:26] SPEAKER_01: Why can't we not be leaders?
[14:28] SPEAKER_01: Why can't we be number one in our days?
[14:30] SPEAKER_02: It does have to wait way too much in the, and the, you know, the Canadian
[14:35] SPEAKER_02: raises is so hard compared to, you know, the international race kind of thing.
[14:42] SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
[14:43] SPEAKER_01: And when we, in our team, you know, looked at the first wave of insure tech,
[14:46] SPEAKER_01: 2010 to 17, that's what we said.
[14:48] SPEAKER_01: We said, you know, most of these, most of these, based, the, the innovation is
[14:52] SPEAKER_01: lacking in underserved, basically, the, you know, the customer first as far as
[14:56] SPEAKER_01: ingenuity and engineering product and solutions for customer more poorly.
[15:00] SPEAKER_01: The, you know, the full end to end full service underwriting platform was
[15:04] SPEAKER_01: there.
[15:04] SPEAKER_01: It was mostly top line customer acquisition models that were done by technology
[15:09] SPEAKER_01: founders that had strong tether's relationships to capital that had strong
[15:13] SPEAKER_01: exits and other realms.
[15:14] SPEAKER_01: And that's what our, that's where we said at 2016, and said, OK, it is now
[15:18] SPEAKER_01: time for Canadian insurance technology innovators to get in the game and not
[15:23] SPEAKER_01: just focus on shiny, narrow program objects that, you know, venture capital
[15:28] SPEAKER_01: was falling, but basically, and trust our own instincts, focus on models around
[15:33] SPEAKER_01: profitability, but architecture that was focused on profitability.
[15:36] SPEAKER_01: So with our own self funding and a little bit of venture capital, we focused
[15:41] SPEAKER_01: on the back end architecture and the machine that would become a full service
[15:45] SPEAKER_01: eventually modern carrier when we, you know, garnered support with some
[15:50] SPEAKER_01: international stakeholders.
[15:51] SPEAKER_01: So, you know, what we had to do was basically you got to get out of your comfort,
[15:56] SPEAKER_01: comfort zone in your own bubble and you go out, you go get it.
[16:00] SPEAKER_01: You don't wait for the phone ring of the door to be knocked on.
[16:02] SPEAKER_01: And we left very, very early in the ideation stage in 2016 and we
[16:07] SPEAKER_01: corded the big green insurance companies.
[16:10] SPEAKER_01: And we just said, hey, this is the Toronto leadership team that's this star
[16:13] SPEAKER_01: vision. And we're focused on building a full stack, unwinding platform
[16:18] SPEAKER_01: that's going essentially create a back end machine and focused on the
[16:22] SPEAKER_01: same architecture and microservices architecture that ecommerce retailers
[16:27] SPEAKER_01: like Walmart's and others are holding.
[16:30] SPEAKER_01: And we're going to build the, you know, a distribution company that's focused
[16:33] SPEAKER_01: customer first so that they're empowered with when it comes to, you know,
[16:38] SPEAKER_01: term treaty product, tailor made offerings, third front of it first and
[16:43] SPEAKER_01: allow the machine to basically pre-undrate and score then offer those benefits
[16:48] SPEAKER_01: and extension of self service features to the customers.
[16:52] SPEAKER_01: So it's a little bit harder.
[16:54] SPEAKER_01: Obviously, do do that in Toronto, Canada because it takes capital and you've
[16:58] SPEAKER_01: got to, it takes probably twice as long because everything's, you know,
[17:02] SPEAKER_01: based on conservative measure success.
[17:05] SPEAKER_01: But we are, we take a different vantage points in the sense that we are
[17:10] SPEAKER_01: aggressive and ambitious and we do not wait for anything.
[17:15] SPEAKER_00: This podcast is sponsored by eBay Canada.
[17:18] SPEAKER_00: eBay Canada is powering Canadian small businesses go to ebay.ca forward slash
[17:23] SPEAKER_00: up and running, Chopen your new global e-commerce business.
[17:28] SPEAKER_02: We're faced with challenges every day is entrepreneur and I'm more interested in,
[17:33] SPEAKER_02: you know, when you're faced with those challenges, especially the ones that you
[17:37] SPEAKER_02: didn't see coming.
[17:39] SPEAKER_02: Okay.
[17:40] SPEAKER_02: How do you typically handle them?
[17:41] SPEAKER_02: Maybe, I mean, have you kind of developed a methodology around them or is it
[17:47] SPEAKER_02: like holy shit each time?
[17:48] SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
[17:49] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a great question.
[17:52] SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm not a patient guy by nature.
[17:56] SPEAKER_01: And let's unpeel about a bit.
[17:57] SPEAKER_01: So I grew up in a very competitive sports household.
[18:02] SPEAKER_01: We got a twin brother and three brothers and I moved away from home very
[18:08] SPEAKER_01: at a young age to pursue hockey.
[18:10] SPEAKER_01: Almost 15 years old.
[18:12] SPEAKER_01: But we pursue excellence and everything we did in that household.
[18:16] SPEAKER_01: So whether it's, and you're always curious, whether you know, we played the,
[18:20] SPEAKER_01: my brother and I played the baritone and the concert band and then we acted in plays
[18:24] SPEAKER_01: and drama.
[18:24] SPEAKER_01: We're curious, you know, always looking to seek new relationships,
[18:29] SPEAKER_01: but we always wanted to win.
[18:31] SPEAKER_01: So there's nothing wrong in Canada by teaching young Canadians that, hey,
[18:36] SPEAKER_01: you want to celebrate this new culture that based for awards and there's a sense
[18:40] SPEAKER_01: of within that culture of kindness, fairness, equity, all that, all that good,
[18:45] SPEAKER_01: rich stuff, holistically within your culture, while you're, while you're
[18:49] SPEAKER_01: innovating with curiosity and other successful values to innovate,
[18:54] SPEAKER_01: but you need to win.
[18:55] SPEAKER_01: You've got to strive for first place in excellence.
[18:58] SPEAKER_01: And when you have those natural instincts within your bones in Canada,
[19:04] SPEAKER_01: you have to learn to be a bit patient.
[19:06] SPEAKER_01: So I've come, you know, you come across all these berries and roadblocks with
[19:09] SPEAKER_01: an insurteic in Canada because coast to coast, most of our property,
[19:14] SPEAKER_01: casual industry is made up of, of carriers that are satellites that pay
[19:18] SPEAKER_01: dividend to a foreign parent.
[19:20] SPEAKER_01: And most of them are really anchored in, you know, slow moving crew ships that
[19:25] SPEAKER_01: are retiring legacy systems, focused on retaining market share.
[19:29] SPEAKER_01: And the decision makers aren't here.
[19:32] SPEAKER_01: So they're, you know, they're not really coming through our office,
[19:35] SPEAKER_01: trying to figure out what the hell these guys are doing.
[19:38] SPEAKER_01: It's been four years.
[19:39] SPEAKER_01: So, you know, and they put up, they, and they put up a lot of rare berries and
[19:44] SPEAKER_01: roadblocks because they don't open up their businesses to let you afford to innovate.
[19:50] SPEAKER_01: Right?
[19:51] SPEAKER_01: So we couldn't wait for that.
[19:52] SPEAKER_01: So we had to go elsewhere outside of our borders, not being naive to look for
[19:55] SPEAKER_01: those different partners that we're going to allow us to basically have capacity
[19:59] SPEAKER_01: underwriting authority, um, baking in dynamics, sophisticated data,
[20:04] SPEAKER_01: sizes within our platform is around underwriting logic.
[20:09] SPEAKER_02: You're, what you're saying to me, I think, is when faced with unexpected challenges,
[20:17] SPEAKER_02: successful entrepreneurs handle them with innovation.
[20:21] SPEAKER_01: The best things can ever happen to an entrepreneur are the most frustrating
[20:25] SPEAKER_01: barriers or blocks because that allows your smarter intelligent team to sit
[20:30] SPEAKER_01: down and focus on solution.
[20:32] SPEAKER_01: So, you know, some of those solutions are, are obviously the business,
[20:35] SPEAKER_01: whether it be technology, but just as important as the customer,
[20:38] SPEAKER_01: think about it.
[20:39] SPEAKER_01: Insurance has always been the lagging financial instrument when it comes to
[20:42] SPEAKER_01: Fintech financial services for lots of different reasons that would take us
[20:46] SPEAKER_01: a few podcasts to, to discuss over.
[20:48] SPEAKER_02: Well, I like that I grew up in a, in a bank in the German city.
[20:52] SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, I know what you're saying.
[20:54] SPEAKER_01: Before the liquidity crisis, they pride themselves in not investing in their
[20:58] SPEAKER_01: capabilities.
[20:59] SPEAKER_01: So, uh, meaning technology and people and everything else.
[21:02] SPEAKER_01: So they've been playing catch up.
[21:04] SPEAKER_01: So what happens is that, you know, the first, we're, we listened to the
[21:07] SPEAKER_01: customer first four years ago and, you know, that frustration within the broader
[21:12] SPEAKER_01: customer going, why are these carriers dictating terms and product towards us?
[21:19] SPEAKER_01: And it's not transparent.
[21:20] SPEAKER_01: I don't know what I'm paying for.
[21:22] SPEAKER_01: And so we listened to the customer say, okay, we're, we're going to help you
[21:25] SPEAKER_01: innovate solutions to, to fix that frustration.
[21:28] SPEAKER_01: We want that small business owner to access product 24, seven within an
[21:33] SPEAKER_01: omnichannel.
[21:34] SPEAKER_01: But more importantly, we don't want to one size fits all product for you.
[21:38] SPEAKER_01: We'll build tailor made off.
[21:39] SPEAKER_01: So that the obstacles and problems that you faced as frustrating as they are
[21:44] SPEAKER_01: and are harder to solve here in Canada still, because we don't have a lot of
[21:49] SPEAKER_01: power and authority at startups.
[21:51] SPEAKER_01: They are probably the best enlightening moments to basically figure out a
[21:55] SPEAKER_01: solution within your value chain.
[21:57] SPEAKER_02: So in terms of the challenge side of it, what's the best piece of advice?
[22:03] SPEAKER_02: You've ever received, you said you had some great mentors through your career.
[22:07] SPEAKER_02: What's the best piece of advice you've ever received that you keep using?
[22:11] SPEAKER_02: That you keep falling back on.
[22:13] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[22:14] SPEAKER_01: So I mean, you're going to get tired of me saying the word people, but I
[22:19] SPEAKER_01: reiterate and regurgitate the best advice I've ever had from my, you know,
[22:24] SPEAKER_01: big four to 500 mentors or my family, a bunch of winners, et cetera.
[22:29] SPEAKER_01: It's round yourself with basically a diversity of different people.
[22:35] SPEAKER_01: Do not have this kind of this hotline, you know, of like and kind people.
[22:40] SPEAKER_01: But surround yourself with as many, many, many network of different people
[22:45] SPEAKER_01: that embrace your curiosity for asking questions, for learning, for always
[22:50] SPEAKER_01: keeping an open mind, age of reason, critical thinking.
[22:55] SPEAKER_01: It's, you know, we, you know, not to get into politics.
[22:58] SPEAKER_01: And you see this kind of isolationism set in the rest of the global framework.
[23:03] SPEAKER_01: But that, that, you know, that dogma doesn't do good for very anybody.
[23:07] SPEAKER_01: So you've got to reach out and extend yourself and your curiosity and your way
[23:12] SPEAKER_01: of thinking to as many different people as possible because you never know
[23:17] SPEAKER_01: within your own life's journey or your business journey or whatever journey
[23:21] SPEAKER_01: that it's on that different people can really be of service, but more importantly,
[23:26] SPEAKER_01: where you can be of service to them as well.
[23:29] SPEAKER_01: And you know, when we, when we're building this company back to the business,
[23:33] SPEAKER_01: it really, really, it's not cliche.
[23:35] SPEAKER_01: It's not, it's about people.
[23:38] SPEAKER_01: And when you're attracting top talent early days, when you don't have a lot of money,
[23:43] SPEAKER_01: you've got to track the best in class folks to build your technology,
[23:47] SPEAKER_01: to build out your distribution ops.
[23:49] SPEAKER_01: And how you do that, it's a long, it starts early.
[23:53] SPEAKER_02: It's a tough road.
[23:53] SPEAKER_02: It's a tough road.
[23:55] SPEAKER_01: Nothing could be reactionary here in Toronto, Canada.
[23:58] SPEAKER_01: You've got to start those courtships two years in advance and say, Hey,
[24:02] SPEAKER_01: I know the year the top salesperson, young, young person, girl or guy,
[24:07] SPEAKER_01: and that company, but watch what we're doing.
[24:09] SPEAKER_01: Watch what we're doing over the course of next 12 months because I'm going to come
[24:12] SPEAKER_01: back to you in 14 months and you're going to come and join our cause.
[24:17] SPEAKER_01: And then when the people join us, it's just like a water tap that turns on.
[24:21] SPEAKER_01: It starts as a drip and then the flow gets a little bit heavier because they
[24:25] SPEAKER_01: invite other rich talent to join the mission.
[24:30] SPEAKER_02: So let's move on to my rapid forest section of questions, you know,
[24:33] SPEAKER_02: just a few Q&A kind of thing.
[24:36] SPEAKER_02: If you weren't doing what you're doing now, what would you be doing instead?
[24:42] SPEAKER_01: Cool.
[24:43] SPEAKER_01: That's, yeah, that's a great question.
[24:45] SPEAKER_01: So you always have to have a dream, right?
[24:47] SPEAKER_01: So when I was young, my brothers and I, we were, we dreamt and we,
[24:51] SPEAKER_01: we put in more than 10,000 hours.
[24:53] SPEAKER_01: We put in 20,000 hours to be professional hockey players.
[24:57] SPEAKER_01: That dream did not realize and I extinguished it as early as I possible could.
[25:02] SPEAKER_01: So you're not basically, you know, crying in your hands at 18.
[25:06] SPEAKER_01: We want to create a new dream.
[25:08] SPEAKER_01: When we look for talent, we look for curiosity and what's your dream in five years.
[25:13] SPEAKER_01: We don't want just folks to join us basically to punch in, punch out.
[25:16] SPEAKER_01: We want, we want actually like help their dreams.
[25:20] SPEAKER_02: But what's your, what's your dream?
[25:22] SPEAKER_02: What would you do?
[25:23] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[25:23] SPEAKER_01: So, you know, altruistically, this business is going to be fine, right?
[25:29] SPEAKER_01: And if I wasn't building Foxville, it would be helping others.
[25:33] SPEAKER_01: And I've got a competitive sense of nature.
[25:35] SPEAKER_01: I'm a need to be busy and all that stuff.
[25:37] SPEAKER_01: I can't be going back to college culture where we're raised on a lake and,
[25:41] SPEAKER_01: yeah, my feed up.
[25:42] SPEAKER_01: That's not my dream.
[25:43] SPEAKER_01: But, you know, when this, you know, this is not, we have no grandiose dreams to
[25:49] SPEAKER_01: basically be in this for 15 years toward Nipo and other.
[25:52] SPEAKER_01: That's not satisfying.
[25:53] SPEAKER_01: Ego, we, you know, there'll be a time and place to basically create a new dream.
[25:57] SPEAKER_01: And that's basically we want to help broaden altruistically the, the Fintech ecosystem
[26:05] SPEAKER_01: where we can open up some of our companies to different global trading partners.
[26:10] SPEAKER_01: My wife and I, you know, she's a business executive as well.
[26:13] SPEAKER_01: So I think that we're already starting in plans on how we can use our abilities
[26:20] SPEAKER_01: and skills to help the next basically wave of entrepreneurs after this is set in time.
[26:26] SPEAKER_01: I'd be, I'd be a teacher if I wasn't based on teacher.
[26:30] SPEAKER_02: Okay.
[26:30] SPEAKER_02: That's a good thing to be.
[26:32] SPEAKER_02: That's a good thing to be.
[26:33] SPEAKER_02: So what are you, what are you reading at the moment?
[26:35] SPEAKER_01: On reading.
[26:36] SPEAKER_01: So we always have entrepreneurial stories that we read at the, at the bedside table.
[26:41] SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, some of that stuff is traditional stuff like the, you know,
[26:45] SPEAKER_01: shoe dog and the Nike story and Jeff Bezos book.
[26:48] SPEAKER_01: But I'm on this kick of based the, uh, theology as well.
[26:53] SPEAKER_01: So it's like, you come to a sense in your life where you're based,
[26:57] SPEAKER_01: that you're looking for something always more meaningful.
[27:00] SPEAKER_01: So I've been digging a little deeper into the spirituality and theology of some
[27:06] SPEAKER_01: of those books and podcasts.
[27:08] SPEAKER_02: Did you read the big nine yet?
[27:10] SPEAKER_02: Was Amy Webb?
[27:11] SPEAKER_01: No.
[27:12] SPEAKER_01: Tell me more about that.
[27:13] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[27:13] SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to tell you.
[27:14] SPEAKER_02: You're going to read it.
[27:15] SPEAKER_02: Okay.
[27:16] SPEAKER_02: It's very interesting.
[27:17] SPEAKER_02: I mean, you might disagree or agree with it, but it's very interesting.
[27:21] SPEAKER_02: She's pretty good futurist and a good writer.
[27:23] SPEAKER_02: So and you're in the tech business.
[27:26] SPEAKER_02: I grew up in the tech business.
[27:27] SPEAKER_02: I like people with vision that sort of saying what's going to happen.
[27:33] SPEAKER_02: So she's, she's, it's interesting.
[27:34] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[27:35] SPEAKER_01: I think like, I mean, I'm a very open-minded guy, but always, you know,
[27:40] SPEAKER_01: I've been fortunate and blessed to have a life, beautiful life that's a deep
[27:44] SPEAKER_01: thicker as well.
[27:45] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[27:45] SPEAKER_02: And I'm really interested in, yeah, makes a big difference.
[27:48] SPEAKER_01: It does.
[27:49] SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, you're always want to be ahead of your life.
[27:53] SPEAKER_01: Um, you don't want your life to be dragging you forward.
[27:55] SPEAKER_01: So you're, and I think there's a real, when you look at the millennials and the
[27:59] SPEAKER_01: Jads, Ed's and I've got four children and my youngest children, those to follow.
[28:04] SPEAKER_01: There's a real sense of purpose for entrepreneurs that are visionaries to
[28:09] SPEAKER_01: now bridge what those new cultures and those businesses.
[28:12] SPEAKER_01: Um, we're going to look like in 10 or 15 years.
[28:15] SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the baby boomers that were very successful and those that are
[28:19] SPEAKER_01: successful today, different cultures.
[28:20] SPEAKER_01: When we talk about Jeff Bezos culture, we, we talk about, you know,
[28:24] SPEAKER_01: um, uh, Apple and some others, uh, to Tesla.
[28:28] SPEAKER_01: These are heavily driven cultures that not necessarily resonate with Jen Zeds and those
[28:35] SPEAKER_01: to follow.
[28:36] SPEAKER_01: So I think there's, there's a better way to allow young people to innovate and be those
[28:43] SPEAKER_01: entrepreneurs within your company.
[28:45] SPEAKER_01: The foster is a culture of balance.
[28:49] SPEAKER_02: Are you a morning or a night person?
[28:51] SPEAKER_01: I'm a morning person.
[28:53] SPEAKER_02: You belong to the 80% of the of the entrepreneurs I interviewed.
[28:57] SPEAKER_02: I think 80% of us are, has to get up.
[29:00] SPEAKER_02: You know, the brain stuff is going off at 430.
[29:04] SPEAKER_02: We've got to get up.
[29:05] SPEAKER_01: It is, uh, you know, if I was a writer, I'd probably be like waking up in the middle
[29:09] SPEAKER_01: of the middle of the night to put my jot down my best notes.
[29:12] SPEAKER_01: But, uh, yeah, I'm one of those guys.
[29:13] SPEAKER_01: I need an adrenaline rush.
[29:15] SPEAKER_01: The first thing in the morning, I went it, get up at five or six and then, um, do my best.
[29:19] SPEAKER_01: The, you know, the guys around me know I can't sit still for 10 minutes.
[29:23] SPEAKER_01: So I do my best thinking between how seven and 11.
[29:27] SPEAKER_01: And after that, I have, you know, my brain's not that great.
[29:30] SPEAKER_02: Totally agree.
[29:31] SPEAKER_02: That's what, what, what's could be, you know, a night these days?
[29:35] SPEAKER_01: Huh.
[29:35] SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, most, most people respond, obviously, to the, to the climate and the
[29:40] SPEAKER_01: environment that we see ourselves in.
[29:42] SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I've got a family of four young kids.
[29:45] SPEAKER_01: Uh, so yeah, I mean, you always are thinking like how to protect, uh,
[29:49] SPEAKER_01: children to, you know, to insulate, basically them from this pandemic that we're in.
[29:55] SPEAKER_01: So you want to have them flourish, uh, not, you know, being a sense of fear or paralysis.
[30:01] SPEAKER_01: Well, they're not able to pursue their normal patterns around, you know, sports activities
[30:05] SPEAKER_01: or dance, whatever that, whatever that is.
[30:07] SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I, I think about it and I'm conscious to be, you know, a good dad.
[30:13] SPEAKER_01: Uh, so I want to be, you know, a great, be there for my kids, uh, family first.
[30:18] SPEAKER_01: And then for the young people that are building our company, that's who I think about first.
[30:23] SPEAKER_01: I think about the young people that are building the company.
[30:25] SPEAKER_01: It's about them and what they're going through.
[30:28] SPEAKER_01: You have to think like these folks are in condos or they're in, but basement apartments.
[30:33] SPEAKER_01: Um, you don't know what type of mental anxiety or ang, uh,
[30:37] SPEAKER_01: anguish that they're, you know, they're, they're feeling right now.
[30:40] SPEAKER_01: So we are as a team and as myself, partially leading that, you know, the team,
[30:45] SPEAKER_01: thinking about how do we best, um, keep them safe, but mentally healthy through this
[30:51] SPEAKER_01: next two years? Because it's going to, it's going to take a couple of years.
[30:55] SPEAKER_02: If you had to describe one yourself in one word, what would it be?
[31:00] SPEAKER_02: And why would you choose that word?
[31:03] SPEAKER_01: Uh, I would hope, I would, I would choose word kind, but, uh, I would, I would hope that, uh,
[31:09] SPEAKER_01: you know, I don't want to, like my great grandfather, grandfather, we just have the
[31:14] SPEAKER_01: little, basically, stone in the ground on their, for the burial, for the burial in their cemetery.
[31:18] SPEAKER_01: And if I just had the little, we plop on the ground, that's all I want.
[31:21] SPEAKER_01: And it would just say, uh, kind person.
[31:24] SPEAKER_01: Because I, I think that, uh, kindness and it's funny.
[31:29] SPEAKER_01: We, uh, we do our strategic vision mission values every year.
[31:34] SPEAKER_01: One of the words that we add it to our values that we add it was kindness.
[31:38] SPEAKER_02: This, uh, that's great.
[31:40] SPEAKER_02: What's your favorite place in the world?
[31:41] SPEAKER_02: He grew up in college, come to you.
[31:43] SPEAKER_02: Is that, is that it?
[31:44] SPEAKER_01: It is like, I mean, you're, you're proud Scotsman, Edinburgh.
[31:48] SPEAKER_01: And it's something like, you know, we, my brother's not before we, you know,
[31:53] SPEAKER_01: like a lot of kids, you pursue education, you have to lead it, it used to be a logging and tourism
[31:58] SPEAKER_01: town. Uh, all the lodges are gone.
[32:01] SPEAKER_01: There's only, I think one heritage lodge out of the 17, our main body of water in Haliburne
[32:06] SPEAKER_01: left. But before we've been bought our first family homes, we bought a, uh, just a shack
[32:13] SPEAKER_01: together in the east side of Haliburne, just have access to water.
[32:16] SPEAKER_01: So I need to be around water.
[32:19] SPEAKER_01: It's, uh, you know, unfortunately, I chose maybe the most landlocked town to raise my family
[32:24] SPEAKER_01: here on tarot and Aurora.
[32:28] SPEAKER_01: There's just something about it.
[32:30] SPEAKER_01: It's a, when, uh, you know, when I was a kid and we were growing up on, you know, rivers and
[32:35] SPEAKER_01: lakes in the bush, you know, you, like, there's no pursuit.
[32:38] SPEAKER_01: I will have to be driving the same truck that I drive today 10 years from now.
[32:43] SPEAKER_01: Home is about family home. I bought this home in 2008 or 2007.
[32:46] SPEAKER_01: I'll be living in this home 20 years from now. Um, it's, uh, there's nothing that I've ever
[32:53] SPEAKER_01: wanted. I've never been a guy that pretends material possessions. I hate that stuff.
[32:58] SPEAKER_01: I was happiest as a kid running barefoot along the river side in, in Haliburne.
[33:04] SPEAKER_01: And, uh, so my brothers and I, that's where we congregate as a family.
[33:07] SPEAKER_01: So it's, uh, we don't even go to our, my parents' beautiful family home up there.
[33:11] SPEAKER_01: We go to these little shacks around the, you know, these lakes.
[33:14] SPEAKER_02: So I usually ask people, this tropical island question, I, you know, but I've decided today,
[33:21] SPEAKER_02: I'm going to ask the COVID version of it.
[33:23] SPEAKER_02: So you're isolated.
[33:25] SPEAKER_02: You know, you're on a small island.
[33:28] SPEAKER_02: Let's say Eagle Lake or something like that.
[33:31] SPEAKER_02: We drop you off there. No technology.
[33:35] SPEAKER_02: You do have a phone, but it's only got one connection.
[33:40] SPEAKER_02: And that's to us.
[33:41] SPEAKER_02: And we can come and pick you up anytime you want. How long do you last?
[33:46] SPEAKER_01: My wife would say you wouldn't last a minute, is it?
[33:51] SPEAKER_01: You know, my mouth doesn't stop going.
[33:54] SPEAKER_01: Now this irritating habit of singing out loud and songs like, I need to be around people.
[34:00] SPEAKER_01: So it's, uh, yeah, I wouldn't last a 20 minutes.
[34:03] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I need to, I need to.
[34:05] SPEAKER_02: That, that's really, really good mark.
[34:09] SPEAKER_02: Okay. Well, that's about it for today.
[34:11] SPEAKER_02: You know, I really enjoyed it.
[34:13] SPEAKER_02: It's a really, really good interaction.
[34:17] SPEAKER_02: Some good feedback for, for people that are looking for ideas and, uh, an understanding.
[34:23] SPEAKER_02: And, and in terms of the people that are doing that, how can they, if they have something that
[34:28] SPEAKER_02: they really want to talk to you about, how can they get a hold of you?
[34:31] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I, I mean, I try to connect and, uh, um, return email and phone call to help as many young
[34:38] SPEAKER_01: people, uh, that are, you know, pursuing these different initiatives or just interested and
[34:43] SPEAKER_01: curious, um, uh, at all.
[34:46] SPEAKER_01: So they can reach me at marketboxwheel.com.
[34:49] SPEAKER_01: And, uh, I'm always open to help and, you know, listen to any of my audience members want to ask
[34:55] SPEAKER_02: questions. Okay, Mark. Well, thanks very much for coming on the Canada's podcast.
[34:59] SPEAKER_02: It's been a delight having you on the show.
[35:02] SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for having a great weekend.
[35:04] SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
[35:05] SPEAKER_00: This podcast is sponsored by eBay Canada.
[35:08] SPEAKER_00: eBay Canada is here to help.
[35:10] SPEAKER_00: They've been supporting Canadian small business retailers for 25 years,
[35:14] SPEAKER_00: and their up and running program is getting Canadian businesses online today.
[35:19] SPEAKER_00: Visit ebay.ca forward slash up and running.
[35:22] SPEAKER_00: Stay local and sell global with eBay.
