The future of fashion with Lisa Lawrence

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[00:00] SPEAKER_03: Welcome to Candidus Podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_03: Hi, this is Celine Williams hosting for Montereo for Candidus Podcast. My guest today is Lisa Lawrence who is the founder and designer of Lawrence Scott atelier. Welcome to the show Lisa.
[00:17] SPEAKER_00: Hi, thank you for having me.
[00:18] SPEAKER_03: I'm excited to talk to you.
[00:22] SPEAKER_03: I've looked up your website and always interested in fashion and that kind of thing. So I think this is going to be really exciting.
[00:30] SPEAKER_03: But before we get into any of that, I would love if you could share with our listeners a little bit about your journey to becoming an entrepreneur to, you know, running the business and founding the business that you're running currently.
[00:44] SPEAKER_00: So my journey was not a straight path at all. I went to university for art and design, but I did not study fashion. I studied painting.
[00:59] SPEAKER_00: And I had a variety of different careers. I was in finance. I taught painting for a time.
[01:08] SPEAKER_00: But I've always been designing clothes for myself. And this business specifically started after I designed a particular dress for myself.
[01:19] SPEAKER_00: And a lot of ladies would come up to me when I was wearing it and asked me where I got it and if they could get one.
[01:26] SPEAKER_00: So the Lawrence Scott atelier was born really slowly over a long period of time.
[01:34] SPEAKER_00: Look at you, twist in terms of what the business itself was going to look like. And yeah, and that's about how we got started.
[01:45] SPEAKER_03: So I love that you have a background in art and design, but not fashion design, because I think we often assume that you have to have a specific, you have to have studied fashion or whatever the specific industry is in order to be successful or to start something that industry and truthfully in when it comes to things like design and art, the aesthetic and there's so many transferable skills.
[02:14] SPEAKER_03: And I think it's really fantastic that you acknowledge that right off the bat because it's important for people to understand that.
[02:20] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think actually sometimes it's a little bit easier to get involved in an industry that you haven't got gone to school for. I know a lot of people that I've spoken to that have fashion degrees when they think of starting a fashion business because they've had four years of education and what is supposed to go into starting a fashion business.
[02:42] SPEAKER_00: They see it as a very prescribed set of steps that they cannot go outside of. And it was the same for me after studying painting for four years. I thought if I was going to become a practicing studio artist, there was a very prescribed way to go about that.
[03:01] SPEAKER_00: And I didn't feel as though I could deviate from that one way of being a studio artist. And I think a lot of people who maybe haven't gone to school for fine arts, they don't have those notions of what it's supposed to be like.
[03:15] SPEAKER_00: So they feel very free to enter the arts industry in their own way, just like I felt very free to enter the fashion industry in a completely different way than would have been taught in the universe.
[03:27] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love that. I know someone who is an industrial designer who is probably is one of the best interior designers that I've ever met in my life. And that's and that's not their education, right? Like they are an industrial designer, but exactly what you're saying is there's a creativity and a freedom because you don't think it has to be a certain way.
[03:49] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think when you are taught for a certain amount of time, exactly what that path is supposed to look like, it can feel extremely overwhelming. And you almost lose the love and lose the joy for that.
[04:04] SPEAKER_00: And when you when you don't know what you're getting yourself into, you can be much more free to just jump in with both feet.
[04:11] SPEAKER_00: I think it does help to have maybe a little bit of an overlap in education, but I don't think people should shy away from entering industries that aren't their specific field.
[04:22] SPEAKER_03: It goes to that sense that if you when you have an education, something, then you have very specific expectations of what it should look like or what milestones should be hit at certain points in time.
[04:34] SPEAKER_00: Yes, I want you need to get started like I'm exactly your or I need X artist residency in order to be successful, but if you don't have someone telling you that's what it has to look like, then you don't mind if it doesn't look like that.
[04:52] SPEAKER_03: That's right. You don't it's you you don't your capacity for failure, black better way of putting it is entirely different because you're like, oh, this is just a I'm just learning a thing as I keep going as opposed to I didn't hear.
[05:04] SPEAKER_03: I hit this expected whatever and now I'm a failure. This is a failure. You're like, oh, okay, well, I'm just going to do the next thing or try something else. I think that's I'm just going to try different. Yeah.
[05:14] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it's so important and we don't always get the opportunity to emphasize that and talk about that in the world of entrepreneurship as much as we should.
[05:23] SPEAKER_00: I agree.
[05:24] SPEAKER_03: As I say should right there.
[05:26] SPEAKER_03: So I love your story of how you design something for yourself that you you know you had this dress and kind of by accident people were like, hey, that dress.
[05:39] SPEAKER_03: How do I get one of those for myself?
[05:43] SPEAKER_03: So I'm curious how for you how you went through the process of you know you have created this one design that you're it sounds like kind of now making for individual people who are expressing some interest into how could this become a business because I there's a lot of people who don't make that leap who become that you know I think of my mother when you know when she had things that she can do.
[06:11] SPEAKER_03: She could do really well. She would just like do that for one person here and do that for one person there and never cross that kind of that mental bridge of this could be something because there's obviously demand for it somewhere.
[06:23] SPEAKER_03: So for you, what was that that crossing that bridge that leap into oh, I could turn this into something. How did that come about for you?
[06:32] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I actually think it was two things. I wasn't very happy in the career that I was in. I mean, it was it was fine, but it was fine. I wasn't I wasn't fulfilled. It wasn't my reason for getting up in the morning.
[06:48] SPEAKER_00: You know, I just it wasn't a bad career, but I wasn't in love with it either and there was parts of it that were stressing me out and stressing me out for what right.
[07:00] SPEAKER_00: For something that I wasn't building for myself. And then the other part of it was the encouragement of my family, my husband specifically saying, you know,
[07:13] SPEAKER_00: there are women who want this. You made this for yourself because you feel the best in this dress than any other dresses.
[07:22] SPEAKER_00: When you want to feel your most beautiful, your most confident, you put on this dress because it flatters you in a way that makes you feel very good about yourself.
[07:31] SPEAKER_00: It's like, why wouldn't you offer that to other women? They're coming up to you. They're asking you for it. He's like, you don't have to, you know, start a fashion empire. It's like, just put up a website so that people can find you if they want this.
[07:47] SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of how it was born from there.
[07:52] SPEAKER_03: It's, I love that you had the support and you kind of had people, even if you necessarily weren't in that moment thinking, oh, this can be a thing. They were encouraging it because they could see the potential.
[08:03] SPEAKER_00: We're absolutely encouraging it. And something, I don't know if this, I feel like this is a common experience of a lot of women where we might have trouble taking credit for our work.
[08:17] SPEAKER_00: Often when people would come up to me and say, oh, I love your dress. I would say, thank you.
[08:24] SPEAKER_00: And that was it. My husband would be like, she made it. She made this dress. She made it herself.
[08:31] SPEAKER_00: And then they'd be like, oh, my God, you made it. You make me one. And he had to, he would say, you know, when someone compliments you on your dress, it's not just thank you. It's thank you. I made it.
[08:41] SPEAKER_00: I want you to practice saying, thank you. I made it because that all along statement is the important part.
[08:49] SPEAKER_00: So having cheerleaders in my corner, a lot of them, but really specifically my husband, I think, made all the difference in me looking at this as a hobby or taking credit for it and turning it into a business.
[09:04] SPEAKER_03: And that's an important transition, right? Being able to actually see the value in it and that it could be a business.
[09:13] SPEAKER_03: And sometimes we can do that ourselves if we are very naturally inclined to entrepreneurship. And some people are, right, if you had parents who were entrepreneurs, you're my parents were both entrepreneurs.
[09:24] SPEAKER_03: So I'm like, oh, there's an opportunity and everything. And I know a lot of people whose parents were not. And so it that outside voice someone else pointing it out is the way to do it.
[09:34] SPEAKER_03: And that's that step to go, oh, this could be something I could turn it into something. And I love, first of all, yay for your husband, he sounds amazing.
[09:45] SPEAKER_03: But I love acknowledging that because we all have different places that it comes from. It's not always obvious that like, this is my future business.
[09:53] SPEAKER_00: No, and I think if I could be that voice for somebody else now or for other people that would be really rewarding, if you have a gift, if you have something that other people love, there's no reason not to take that step and see if you can make it a profitable part of your life.
[10:08] SPEAKER_03: And it's that taking the step in a safe way, right, where it's not like, I need to buy a million dollar warehouse and hire 500 people.
[10:20] SPEAKER_03: It's not like what is that?
[10:22] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that can be really challenging because again, even though I was saying because I don't have education in the fashion industry that I wasn't bound by the expectations of what starting a fashion brand would look like.
[10:38] SPEAKER_00: It was still a real challenge to me like, I don't know how to turn this into a brand. I don't know how to have it produced. I don't know like I and research the way that this is typically been done. But like you said, I would need a lot of money. I would need a huge production team.
[10:56] SPEAKER_00: I would need contacts in China or places that produce clothing. So looking at all of those things and not letting them overwhelm you to the point of stopping, but thinking about what would this look like if I didn't have to do it the way that someone else did it before, do it the way that brands typically do it.
[11:17] SPEAKER_00: How would I do it if I didn't know the way that it was already supposed to be done is still a real challenge.
[11:27] SPEAKER_03: So with how because you didn't have, because you had your own approach to doing this and because, and I'm sure like all of us who started businesses, some things went well, others did not go so well.
[11:40] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that is the real life of entrepreneurship. I'm curious what in looking back you can say, okay, these things worked really well and were an advantage to me.
[11:52] SPEAKER_03: And I wish I'd known this when I started that maybe I would have done differently.
[11:58] SPEAKER_01: Okay, so things that worked to my advantage would definitely be not binding myself to anything that was the way that a typical fashion brand should be run.
[12:21] SPEAKER_00: So instead of deciding to have my garments mass produced in a factory, I decided to hire dress makers who would make each dress from start to finish.
[12:38] SPEAKER_00: And because they can make each dress from start to finish, there's no reason that we can't do it custom to women's measurements.
[12:47] SPEAKER_00: So all of our dresses are made to measure. And there's no reason that they can't take the supplies into their own homes and work from home.
[12:56] SPEAKER_00: So they've had complete autonomy over when and where and how they work, which is really important to me.
[13:02] SPEAKER_00: And it's been an aspect that everyone who works with us has had built into the company from the very start.
[13:10] SPEAKER_00: And that actually really helped us whether COVID better than we expected we would.
[13:16] SPEAKER_00: So that just being really flexible has been a huge advantage.
[13:23] SPEAKER_00: And then things that have not worked out so well is working with people based or companies like subcontracting work such as website design or things like that.
[13:41] SPEAKER_00: Out to other companies based on friends recommendations and and not cutting those relationships, business relationships, not personal relationships, but not cutting those business relationships sooner when it became very clear that they were not going well.
[14:00] SPEAKER_00: I would say that has been one of my most expensive lessons learned multiple times.
[14:06] SPEAKER_03: I think that's unfortunately really common is that it's that sunk cost fallacy where you're like, well, I've spent this much money already. So if I spend a little bit more, I'm sure it'll get better.
[14:17] SPEAKER_00: It'll get better and they say they're going to do a better job. So I just see how it works out. It doesn't work out. You should cut your losses and find someone who is really professional and has a professional product that they cannot for you.
[14:34] SPEAKER_03: I talk about sunk cost fall sale time with clients because it is the easiest thing that we get stuck in where we're like, but I've already spent all this money.
[14:43] SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I'm going to continue to spend more. I've spent all this time. I'm just going to put a little more time in and it is you just don't recoup most of the time when we've done that and it is exactly.
[14:54] SPEAKER_00: But even though that person is very, very nice and you want to maintain them as a person in your life doing business with them is not always the best choice.
[15:06] SPEAKER_00: And that can be something expensive to learn. But then on the other hand, like I said, choosing the people who I worked with as far as dress makers and giving them flexibility and autonomy and everyone having really control over how they can do it.
[15:24] SPEAKER_00: And then all they do their work has been one of our biggest factors of success, I think.
[15:30] SPEAKER_03: So we were talking a little bit before we hit record about the lack of sustainability in the fashion industry.
[15:39] SPEAKER_03: And it sounds like how you've set Lauren Scott up is really the opposite of fast fashion. It is the it is like completely counter to that.
[15:52] SPEAKER_03: And I love it. Talk about that a little bit.
[15:55] SPEAKER_00: Yeah. It is slow fashion for sure. It is.
[16:00] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is absolutely slow fashion. And I would like to kind of give the little disclaimer that no fashion is perfect.
[16:09] SPEAKER_00: And it is really, really challenging to do things in a sustainable way.
[16:16] SPEAKER_00: And there are aspects of the business that are not 100% sustainable.
[16:21] SPEAKER_00: And we are as we find better ways to do things, we will change those so that we are doing them in a better, more sustainable, more friendly way.
[16:30] SPEAKER_00: But so we're what we call a triple bottom line company, which means our ethical production are eco focus and our profitability are all equally important.
[16:46] SPEAKER_00: So we will never sacrifice one of those things for the other.
[16:51] SPEAKER_00: So there's a few different ways that we work towards being fully sustainable. One of those things is in our part, well, let's start with the fabric.
[17:03] SPEAKER_00: So the fabrics that we choose, their OcoTech certified and their organic, which means that from the way that they're farmed to the way that they're died to the way that they're processed.
[17:14] SPEAKER_00: There's nothing harmful, there's no pollutants, there's no chemicals in them. So the fabric, we do our very best to only select fabrics that are safe and don't harm the environment or the people who make them.
[17:26] SPEAKER_00: In our production process, we don't create more product than we need.
[17:33] SPEAKER_00: So all of our dresses are made to measure. So we don't make anything before we're making it specifically for our customer.
[17:40] SPEAKER_00: So we never have overstock, we never have production over production that's going to a landfill.
[17:45] SPEAKER_00: When we are cutting our dresses, we only cut exactly the amount of fabric that is needed.
[17:52] SPEAKER_00: And even the little bits of like the tiny little pieces that are too small to do something with, we save and recycle those.
[17:58] SPEAKER_00: So we have no waste that is ever going off to a landfill.
[18:03] SPEAKER_00: And then the third most polluting kind of, or piece of a garment's life cycle is actually after it goes to the customer.
[18:15] SPEAKER_00: And what happens to it then? Does it, is it repaired? Is it laundered in a way that's good for the environment?
[18:22] SPEAKER_00: And when the customer is done with it does it go to a landfill?
[18:26] SPEAKER_00: So we're trying to actually take care of that piece of the puzzle as well.
[18:31] SPEAKER_00: So if a garment ever has a flaw or needs repair, our customers can just send it back to us and will repair it for the lifetime of the garment.
[18:39] SPEAKER_00: When our customer is done with it, they can send it back to us and we will recycle it for them.
[18:44] SPEAKER_00: So we really want to think about what is happening to our garment from, or what is happening to our garment and for our garment in every step of the life cycle along the way, right up until our customer is done with it.
[19:01] SPEAKER_03: I think that I appreciate the disclaimer that obviously no fashionist is perfect in this way.
[19:07] SPEAKER_03: And I think that's true of all industries. There's no industry where it's like, well, we've got it all figured out it's 100% sustainable.
[19:14] SPEAKER_00: It's not. And if anybody is saying that they are 100% sustainable, I think that's an excellent goal.
[19:20] SPEAKER_00: But the truth is we just don't have yet the processes for things to be 100% sustainable. So it's probably not.
[19:30] SPEAKER_03: Yeah. And I think it's, and I think I appreciate you explaining your process and what makes this business different because so many of us, especially these days and especially with, you know, the ability to order things off whatever website to get delivered to your house, we are very wasteful with fashion and we are very wasteful with, you know, those five dollar t-shirts that we're just letting you know,
[20:00] SPEAKER_03: like, well, we're for and then toss out and all of that.
[20:04] SPEAKER_00: And we're wasteful in ways we don't even think about and don't even understand because there's so many aspects that go into the bottom line of a fashion company, especially a big fashion company that we might not think about returns is a big one.
[20:21] SPEAKER_00: So we make our orders make to measure, which means they're guaranteed to fit, which means we don't have returns, but a lot of companies, especially really big companies, they don't have a mechanism to restock the returns once they're sent back to them because it's too costly to employ a person to do that.
[20:41] SPEAKER_00: So if you order, you know, two sizes in this pair of jeans and I'll send one back often, the one that gets sent back is thrown out.
[20:55] SPEAKER_03: I would guess that most people are saying to this had no idea about that because it's just not common. It's not common knowledge.
[21:03] SPEAKER_00: It's not a common thing to know. Why would a company say that that is what happens to the things that are sent back?
[21:10] SPEAKER_00: It's right. Amazon is especially bad for that from my understanding a lot of the stuff, especially the inexpensive stuff.
[21:17] SPEAKER_00: It's just not worth the time of paying a team of employees to restock that stuff. So it just goes away.
[21:24] SPEAKER_03: Yeah. I think it's really important that people are aware that there are alternatives to that type of consumption in the world.
[21:37] SPEAKER_03: But you explaining your process is a great way of understanding what an alternative could look like.
[21:44] SPEAKER_03: And that is available for women in terms of dresses and fashion right now.
[21:50] SPEAKER_00: And it certainly does involve a bit of changing the way you think about consumption.
[22:01] SPEAKER_00: And what is expensive, what is costly, and what is worth it?
[22:08] SPEAKER_00: Because I know a lot of people think, you know, paying a higher price for a t-shirt doesn't make any sense when I can get a $5 t-shirt.
[22:17] SPEAKER_00: And if you're just looking at the dollar value of those two items, that makes complete sense.
[22:22] SPEAKER_00: That's why would I spend more on something similar when I can get it, for less.
[22:28] SPEAKER_00: But when you're looking at the total cost of that garment and the longevity of it and the fit of it, a helpful way to look at it can be breaking it down into cost per wear.
[22:41] SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the $5 t-shirt, if I wear it twice, that's 250 aware, that's pretty low, that's a great cost per wear.
[22:52] SPEAKER_00: But maybe there's a $20 t-shirt that you're going to wear 20 or 30 times, that cost per wear is like a buck, $1.75.
[23:04] SPEAKER_03: That's a pretty good cost per wear.
[23:06] SPEAKER_03: It's funny, I often think that we think of these things, or maybe it's only me, but I often think that we don't question these sorts of things as much when it comes to like shoes.
[23:17] SPEAKER_03: Like if I'm going to buy a pair of winter boots, I might spend a few hundred dollars on it because they're going to be warmer and they're going to last me a few winters and that cost per wear is really low.
[23:28] SPEAKER_03: I'm probably not going to spend $30 on winter boots and expect them in Canada to keep my feet warm.
[23:34] SPEAKER_03: But yeah, when it comes to clothes, let's just get more as opposed to a higher quality.
[23:51] SPEAKER_03: It's just, I think it's such an interesting mentality that we have about specific aspects of fashion and other things, right?
[23:59] SPEAKER_03: Happens with accessories and purses and that we don't have in other parts of fashion.
[24:04] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think it definitely speaks to the way we value our clothes now.
[24:08] SPEAKER_00: I was reading a really interesting book some time ago that was talking about the typical wardrobe of a woman in the 1940s, 1950s.
[24:18] SPEAKER_00: And she would have 11 outfits and they took women in those days, typically wardrobe dresses.
[24:26] SPEAKER_00: So they would have 11 dresses, like one for every day, a couple for parties, one for church.
[24:31] SPEAKER_00: And those would last you for years and years and years.
[24:35] SPEAKER_00: So of course you were willing to pay a little bit more for something that was perfect for you.
[24:42] SPEAKER_00: All of your friends would know all of your outfits.
[24:44] SPEAKER_00: It's never, it wasn't like you would be getting a new outfit for every event.
[24:48] SPEAKER_00: It was a very different value proposition for what you would be willing to spend on one article.
[24:55] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, that's fascinating.
[24:59] SPEAKER_03: So before we wrap this up, I always like to ask a question.
[25:01] SPEAKER_03: Is there anything that we didn't talk about or that you want to emphasize as part of what we did talk about?
[25:07] SPEAKER_03: Because we got in, you know, I really appreciate you being willing to kind of play in the space of the sustainability of fashion and talking about it.
[25:14] SPEAKER_03: Because I think it's important for our listeners to understand that.
[25:17] SPEAKER_03: But I don't want to assume that, you know, we said everything you wanted to say necessarily.
[25:23] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think something beyond just the fashion and the sustainability of our products that is really important to us.
[25:37] SPEAKER_00: The other thing that makes us a little bit unique and I think a lot of businesses post COVID are starting to kind of realize this and incorporate it into their business models is the flexibility of the community.
[25:53] SPEAKER_00: When and how you work for your people and taking really good care of your team and your people.
[26:01] SPEAKER_00: That has always been a number one priority for me.
[26:06] SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to do this business. I would rather fail than take advantage of people or have people work for me in a way that wasn't fulfilling to them.
[26:19] SPEAKER_00: I don't want to have people working with me who feel like they are trapped in a job.
[26:28] SPEAKER_00: And I think the idea of work life balance is obviously a better idea than what came before it, which was all work and no life.
[26:38] SPEAKER_00: But I think with COVID we kind of had to realize that we need to move a little bit beyond work life balance and not have them be two separate rounds and move towards more of a work life integration where you are able to earn a living well, you live your life, built into and around how you live your life and not have work be the way that you fund the real life that you want to live.
[27:09] SPEAKER_00: And I think having that be a core aspect of the business from the beginning but really fully realizing what that looks like through this whole COVID journey has been a huge component or part of finding people who really want to work with us and want to work with us long term and stick it out through the hard times.
[27:35] SPEAKER_03: I love that. I appreciate you saying that because I think it is especially in fashion.
[27:43] SPEAKER_03: It's very different. That's not the norm for a lot of especially the sort of big, you know, fashion houses and labels. It's not that's not the norm.
[27:53] SPEAKER_03: So I think it is important to emphasize that and I appreciate you bringing it up.
[27:58] SPEAKER_00: And I know I understand that for a lot of people the price point of the one Scott garment is definitely more in the luxury realm and by nature of the cost of our fabrics and the cost of our production at least for the time being that absolutely has to be the way it is.
[28:14] SPEAKER_00: But I'm comfortable with that. But the in my mind of product or garment or anything will never truly be truly be a luxury item if the people making it are living lives that are very unmoxurious.
[28:35] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And something that we all need to be very aware of when we consume that fashion that we love to consume.
[28:48] SPEAKER_00: There's yeah, even you know, because I think a lot of people when they buy something that's very costly, especially with a designer name on it.
[28:57] SPEAKER_00: You know, thousands of dollars for a handbag for example, they assume that the person making it or maybe they don't think about the person making it.
[29:07] SPEAKER_00: But at the very least if they really think about the person making it, I think they would assume that that person is earning a portion of that price and that is not always the case.
[29:17] SPEAKER_00: There's people making very expensive luxury handbags working in other countries for dollars and out for dollars.
[29:26] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a good reminder because we don't we hear about it, but we don't connect the dots quite often, especially when it comes to luxury brands.
[29:37] SPEAKER_03: And I think that yes, you know, something like Lauren Scott that is quote luxury, but is actually really paying people a fair wage and being thoughtful in their approach is a different whole different space in the luxury realm that we need to talk about more in general.
[30:00] SPEAKER_01: I agree.
[30:03] SPEAKER_03: So for those who are listening, this will all spin the show notes, but you can find more about Lauren Scott atelier on on their website, which is Lawrence got atelier.com.
[30:14] SPEAKER_03: And Lisa, thank you for joining me today. It's been a pleasure speaking with you. I really appreciate all of your insight and your openness.
[30:22] SPEAKER_00: Likewise, thank you so much for having me.
[30:24] SPEAKER_03: Absolutely. And for the listener, thanks for listening to Canada's podcast, like comment and subscribe to all our channels to get the latest podcasts from entrepreneurs across Canada.