Reducing the time, stress and cost of divorce

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[00:00] SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Canada's Podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_00: Hello, I'm Mario Tonigusi with Calgary's Podcast on Canada's Podcast Network.
[00:11] SPEAKER_00: Joining me today is Karen Stewart, founder and CEO of Fairway Divorce Solutions.
[00:17] SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us today, Karen.
[00:19] SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
[00:21] SPEAKER_00: All right, let's talk about divorce and separation.
[00:25] SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about fairway and what you guys do.
[00:30] SPEAKER_01: So fairway was actually started back in 2006.
[00:35] SPEAKER_01: And the whole intention of fairway was to give divorcing couples in Canada
[00:41] SPEAKER_01: who have assets and children to protect a better way to divorce.
[00:46] SPEAKER_01: So it's essentially a start to finish process that takes couples from start to finish.
[00:54] SPEAKER_01: And then it coordinates quarterbacks all the other professions needed along the way.
[01:00] SPEAKER_00: OK, then.
[01:01] SPEAKER_00: So is there a need for all these other professions?
[01:06] SPEAKER_01: It depends case by case, right?
[01:09] SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you need business valuations, sometimes you need pension valuations,
[01:14] SPEAKER_01: sometimes you need lawyers.
[01:16] SPEAKER_01: Certainly when you're dotting the teeth or dotting the eyes and crossing the teeth,
[01:21] SPEAKER_01: you got lawyers to help with the contracts for sure.
[01:24] SPEAKER_00: OK, what's the goal here of this?
[01:27] SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm why you.
[01:29] SPEAKER_00: That's it.
[01:29] SPEAKER_01: So, you know, the goal is not changed.
[01:32] SPEAKER_01: The goal is to reduce cost, reduce time, reduce stress and protect kids.
[01:39] SPEAKER_01: And that really has been the four cornerstones since the day we opened many years ago.
[01:46] SPEAKER_00: OK, can you tell me a little bit about the history of this?
[01:49] SPEAKER_00: How did it, how did it start and the why?
[01:52] SPEAKER_00: Why it started?
[01:53] SPEAKER_01: Well, the starting of this is a really sad morbid story.
[01:56] SPEAKER_01: It's my own story.
[01:58] SPEAKER_01: I actually, my, my previous life was an owner of a stock broking firm in,
[02:05] SPEAKER_01: and so I had a number of employees and stock brokers.
[02:09] SPEAKER_01: And part of what we did was we, we helped couples when they're going through divorce,
[02:14] SPEAKER_01: what their assets.
[02:15] SPEAKER_01: And, and so I had an interest from a financial perspective.
[02:18] SPEAKER_01: But what I didn't know was the universe had planned on me going through a very expensive,
[02:24] SPEAKER_01: to the tune of 500,000 plus in legal bills alone from the time of 2001 to 2005, six issues.
[02:33] SPEAKER_01: Anyways, a very morbid sad story about a divorce that could have been resolved in a pragmatic way.
[02:41] SPEAKER_01: The assets were complicated.
[02:42] SPEAKER_01: We had a stock broking firm and kids and stuff,
[02:45] SPEAKER_01: but it didn't need to, the outcome didn't need to be the outcome it needed to be.
[02:50] SPEAKER_01: And so that really quite frankly stirred me on, created a passion,
[02:56] SPEAKER_01: you know, probably it was a bit of a, you know,
[02:59] SPEAKER_01: I don't want other people to suffer what I did.
[03:02] SPEAKER_01: And then we ventured off and started fairway.
[03:05] SPEAKER_00: So you're based in Calgary, but do you have offices elsewhere or what's your reach nationally on this?
[03:12] SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's such a great question for an entrepreneur,
[03:16] SPEAKER_01: because as you grow and as you expand, there's different ways of doing that.
[03:20] SPEAKER_01: And so I was really torn between the corporate expansion model,
[03:25] SPEAKER_01: owning everything or franchising.
[03:27] SPEAKER_01: And I have to say that journey's been very interesting,
[03:29] SPEAKER_01: but we're very committed to the, to the franchise model.
[03:34] SPEAKER_01: We have 13 offices across Canada.
[03:39] SPEAKER_01: And, you know, again, a bit of ups and downs.
[03:42] SPEAKER_01: I'm sure we can have some maybe some time to chat about that as a non-prinners journey.
[03:46] SPEAKER_01: But yes, we are a franchise model in a very non-traditional franchise business.
[03:55] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's funny, right?
[03:56] SPEAKER_00: Because most, you most think of a, you know, fast food restaurants or stuff like that as franchise models.
[04:03] SPEAKER_00: But in the course, it's kind of interesting.
[04:07] SPEAKER_00: Who are you clients? Like, who typically walks in the door and seeks your services?
[04:14] SPEAKER_01: Well, I guess the obvious is, is there people who are getting divorced?
[04:18] SPEAKER_01: There are people like you and me.
[04:19] SPEAKER_01: There are people who, you know, they find themselves, I'm not saying you've been divorced,
[04:24] SPEAKER_01: but I'm just saying, they're people who find themselves faced with the doorsteps on the doorsteps
[04:30] SPEAKER_01: of divorce, who have something to protect.
[04:33] SPEAKER_01: So that's something could be assets that they've worked all their life to build and save
[04:40] SPEAKER_01: or could be children. And typically, I mean, we're not the cheapest, where, you know, we,
[04:47] SPEAKER_01: there's lots of cheaper alternatives. We take great pride in trying to be the best.
[04:52] SPEAKER_01: And I think we are the best. Our competition tends to be more the matrimonial lawyer.
[04:58] SPEAKER_01: So we're really the alternative to hiring two lawyers and fighting it out.
[05:03] SPEAKER_01: That's where we play.
[05:05] SPEAKER_00: Have you looked at the typical cost of, you know, how does that compare to, say, a traditional
[05:14] SPEAKER_00: divorce? I don't know if you can quantify that in any way for us.
[05:18] SPEAKER_01: You know, that's a great question. And the legal system does put out research stats every now and
[05:26] SPEAKER_01: but of course, they're based on voluntary submission of data. So we can, you know, roughly say,
[05:36] SPEAKER_01: roughly, that the average divorce for a couple in Canada would range probably 16 to 18,000 per person.
[05:46] SPEAKER_01: Now, that is, so you're looking 30 to 40. Of course, if there's any issues of contention or argument
[05:55] SPEAKER_01: or court or affidavit, you're up at 100,000, we tend to play in somewhere between the 8,000 and 25,
[06:03] SPEAKER_01: 30,000 range per couple.
[06:06] SPEAKER_00: Okay. Can you talk about, you know, the growth that you've seen in the company like,
[06:13] SPEAKER_00: you know, through the period of time since inception. How has it grown? You know, obviously with
[06:20] SPEAKER_00: the franchising model now, but prior to that, did you notice any peaks and valleys in your journey?
[06:29] SPEAKER_01: Well, I would say the market of divorce has been pretty stable. I mean, it's been, you know,
[06:36] SPEAKER_01: there's about a 40 to 50% chance of people who get married getting divorced. That's been the same.
[06:42] SPEAKER_01: What has really changed is the openness to alternative dispute resolution. So when I started this,
[06:49] SPEAKER_01: oh my gosh, I had so many arrows in my back. It was absolutely horrible. The amount of
[06:56] SPEAKER_01: a people that were trying to take me down. And I, those were tough times because I was a new
[07:03] SPEAKER_01: person on the block challenging status quo, you know, doing what I felt was in the best interest
[07:08] SPEAKER_01: of mankind and people in Canada and beyond Canada just to approach the breakdown of a marriage
[07:15] SPEAKER_01: in a better way. Fast forward to today. And there's tons of competition. So I guess that's the
[07:22] SPEAKER_00: compliment, right? Yeah, exactly. So in terms of being an entrepreneur, Karen, what would you say
[07:32] SPEAKER_00: there? Your toughest challenges? Or first of all, in the past and maybe even in the present?
[07:39] SPEAKER_01: So I think, you know, it's such a, I love this conversation because are you born an entrepreneur?
[07:47] SPEAKER_01: Are you made an entrepreneur? I think I fall into the category of born entrepreneur. And with that comes
[07:54] SPEAKER_01: some great assets and some great challenges because as a true entrepreneur, typically you're
[08:03] SPEAKER_01: visionary. So you see things beyond their time. So that means you might get into a market too soon.
[08:11] SPEAKER_01: You might be too ahead of the game. And I've done that on a couple of occasions.
[08:17] SPEAKER_01: I think the benefit is, you know, you work for yourself. You've got flexibility. But really,
[08:23] SPEAKER_01: the opposite is it's 21st seven. You don't have, you know, you have stability. You have no stability.
[08:30] SPEAKER_01: You don't really have a collaboration. I mean, I'm lucky I have a wonderful board. But still,
[08:36] SPEAKER_01: I'm the captain of the ship. And if I steer in the wrong direction, I'm going to head an iceberg
[08:42] SPEAKER_01: and go down. And really, the person who is accountable is me. So it's a bit of a lonely journey.
[08:48] SPEAKER_01: I think in a emotional psychological way, even though you may be surrounded by a lot of people.
[08:55] SPEAKER_00: What do you think it takes to be an entrepreneur?
[08:59] SPEAKER_01: Oh, stupidity. No.
[09:04] SPEAKER_01: No, I think it takes, I think it takes somebody who absolutely believes in what they're doing,
[09:16] SPEAKER_01: why they're doing it and how they're doing it. So I think there has to be a law, you know,
[09:20] SPEAKER_01: that's what takes it to be an entrepreneur. I think there's a big difference to be an entrepreneur
[09:24] SPEAKER_01: and be a successful entrepreneur. And I think it takes tenacity. And in this day and age,
[09:32] SPEAKER_00: a lot of tenacity. Now, no pun intended considering your line of work. But where does passion fit
[09:41] SPEAKER_00: in when it comes to entrepreneur? Like, do you have to have that passion for something to be
[09:49] SPEAKER_01: successful? I just finished an amazing book and I'm trying to remember his name. But he talked
[09:55] SPEAKER_01: about how passion was just an endless trail of disappointment. And in fact, what we should be
[10:04] SPEAKER_01: doing is we should be coming crafts people, craftsmen, crafts people at what we do. And I think
[10:12] SPEAKER_01: that's really for me, you know, for me, I was passionate about making a difference. But
[10:19] SPEAKER_01: that only lasts for so long when you're trying to pay bills and you're trying to hire right people.
[10:25] SPEAKER_01: And you know, you make more mistakes than you make successes. I think there has to be a craftsmanship
[10:31] SPEAKER_01: that you feel you're an expert and you have something of great value to offer the people who work
[10:37] SPEAKER_01: for you, the people who work with you, and then you're an end user. So when you, you know, embarked
[10:45] SPEAKER_00: on this journey, were there any mentors that helped you along the way or any, like you mentioned,
[10:51] SPEAKER_00: a book, but any books that and or even examples of people that you followed?
[11:01] SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I'm, you know, I graduated with an MBA in 1988. So that gives you an idea of sort of,
[11:08] SPEAKER_01: you know, when I was, when I graduated, there was literally a little paragraph in one of the textbooks
[11:13] SPEAKER_01: about entrepreneurship. So I grew up in a time when there was not a lot of female mentors to emulate.
[11:20] SPEAKER_01: So a lot of my mentors were male coaches. And I did, from a very young career age, I hired,
[11:29] SPEAKER_01: always had a coach. And you know, I went through strategic coach at higher independent coaches. I
[11:42] SPEAKER_01: tried to surround myself with other people who I could learn from, but there was nobody. And that
[11:49] SPEAKER_01: was, I think, the biggest challenge that I could look at where I could say, okay, I'm starting a
[11:53] SPEAKER_01: subway competitor. I can just emulate what subway does. Do it better, do it faster, do it cheaper.
[12:01] SPEAKER_01: I couldn't do that. And that's been the hardest thing is trying to find a niche in a niche that I
[12:07] SPEAKER_00: had to create. Yeah, exactly. Now, I'm interested about your, your reference to coaches. And,
[12:14] SPEAKER_00: you know, tell me, I guess the benefits of having coaches, you know, with this, I shouldn't say
[12:21] SPEAKER_00: Dima doesn't, but there almost seems to be like everybody's a coach out there now. You know,
[12:28] SPEAKER_00: scroll through LinkedIn and you see tons of them, right? What are the benefits that you've seen
[12:35] SPEAKER_01: through that? Am I allowed to say a slight swear word? They call you on your shit. How's that?
[12:45] SPEAKER_01: So I think, I think, you know, I've had good coaches, I've had great coaches, I've had poor coaches.
[12:50] SPEAKER_01: I think having a coach that has some skill or acumen around the area that you're in helps because
[13:01] SPEAKER_01: they can be more strategic. But for me, it was always about somebody listening to what I had to say
[13:11] SPEAKER_01: and challenging the way I was thinking and or encouraging me to think differently. I was not
[13:19] SPEAKER_01: somebody I never have been somebody who needed somebody to hold me to goals or accountability,
[13:26] SPEAKER_01: because I was I'm I'm over over accountable and goal oriented probably to my demise. But having
[13:32] SPEAKER_01: a sounding board, I just am a huge advocate, whether it's a counselor because you're going through
[13:39] SPEAKER_01: challenges in life, whether it's a coach because you're trying to, you know, figure the whole thing out.
[13:45] SPEAKER_01: I don't I think we all need that sounding board. So I'm a I'm a true believer in that and have
[13:51] SPEAKER_00: done it my entire career. What do you think, especially in this field? What do you think you bring
[13:59] SPEAKER_00: to the table as an entrepreneur and as an advocate of what you're doing by being female as opposed to
[14:08] SPEAKER_01: being male? I think I think females have a this is what my experience has shown me that females
[14:24] SPEAKER_01: not all, but the talented ones have a way of seeing the big picture and the context very clearly
[14:33] SPEAKER_01: without getting lost in the inertia. So it's the ability to apply analytical skills. A lot of
[14:41] SPEAKER_01: experience and intelligent worked in with intuition and a little bit of that mother earth caring
[14:49] SPEAKER_01: component. Women typically are very good multitaskers and when you're running an organization and
[14:57] SPEAKER_01: you have so many areas that you need to have your eyes on, I think that helps. I think the other thing
[15:05] SPEAKER_01: that maybe as a female because I'm also a very because of my financial background, I'm an
[15:11] SPEAKER_01: anomaly in that I have a very strong analytical financial side to me, but I'm also very caring and
[15:17] SPEAKER_01: loving and empathetic. And I think the structure of fairway has been able to embrace that sort of
[15:24] SPEAKER_01: qualities within the design of our process and our franchise system.
[15:29] SPEAKER_00: Now if you had someone come to you and and say they're interested in becoming an entrepreneur,
[15:36] SPEAKER_01: what advice would you give them? I would really want to understand what they meant by the word.
[15:45] SPEAKER_01: I think that the word has been overused and I would like to see it start to fall into silo.
[15:55] SPEAKER_01: So is it a contract entrepreneur? Is it a starting to see silos on entrepreneurship?
[16:02] SPEAKER_01: Because entrepreneurship is not just about going out and biting the bullet and facing your fears
[16:09] SPEAKER_01: and starting a company, it's also a mindset and it's interesting because right now over the next
[16:15] SPEAKER_01: probably six months to a year, Ash, I'm looking at hiring a certain person and they've got to have
[16:21] SPEAKER_01: that fine balance between a non-prinert. So you can have an entrepreneur within your organization.
[16:28] SPEAKER_01: So I think I would really want them to understand how they define it and then get really clear
[16:34] SPEAKER_01: about that definition and then match that to whatever they're thinking they're doing and then
[16:39] SPEAKER_00: it's like a check box, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you know, you mentioned earlier about, you know,
[16:46] SPEAKER_00: working 24 or 7 and stuff. So, you know, in this day and age, you know, we talk a lot about work
[16:54] SPEAKER_00: life balance and where do you find it? First of all, do you think you have it?
[16:59] SPEAKER_01: I absolutely have it and I'll tell you, that is another benefit of being a female.
[17:04] SPEAKER_01: I was a single mom and I raised three children on my own. I didn't have a choice but to have
[17:09] SPEAKER_01: work life balance. It was not even a conversation. It was never even a conversation I had with myself
[17:16] SPEAKER_01: or anybody had with me because it was innate in my roles. Now today, my kids are a little bit
[17:22] SPEAKER_01: they're older. My youngest is in university. The other two have careers. You know, my husband and I
[17:31] SPEAKER_01: are adventure seekers. So we do high altitude climbing. We travel the world. We do extreme sports.
[17:38] SPEAKER_01: So, you know, one of my favorite things is to climb beyond, you know, 14,000 feet where you
[17:44] SPEAKER_01: don't have a lot of oxygen and all you are is with your thoughts and your steps and there's
[17:49] SPEAKER_01: nothing more humbling and challenging and grounding because your brain doesn't work the same
[17:58] SPEAKER_01: in those lack of oxygen areas. So we do a lot of that. We're extreme skiers. We're both very athletic.
[18:06] SPEAKER_01: We, you know, and we push ourselves and I and again, that's probably a type A personality, right?
[18:12] SPEAKER_00: Too, but. Why do you think you're attracted to these kinds of pursuits?
[18:20] SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that there again, an entrepreneur probably, a real entrepreneur, a born entrepreneur,
[18:28] SPEAKER_01: probably has a little bit of an adrenaline addiction. You know, you've got to have that certain,
[18:34] SPEAKER_01: you know, that's moving you along to perhaps take more risks, see opportunities with others,
[18:42] SPEAKER_01: can't see them to be that mindset. So I think that that's just innate a bit to the personality.
[18:48] SPEAKER_01: I think that I'm not an adrenaline junkie anymore. I think I've chilled out it,
[18:55] SPEAKER_01: but I'm now just challenging myself to be the best that I can be and I don't think just sitting
[19:02] SPEAKER_01: and working in business is about being the best you can be because we want to be the best we can
[19:09] SPEAKER_01: be as a parent, as a spouse, as a daughter, as a sister, as a mother, as a boss. That's really what
[19:17] SPEAKER_00: life is about. Well, that was a pleasure talking to you, Karen. I really appreciate it.
[19:24] SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you. That was a lot of fun. All right. Super. That was Karen Stewart, who was founder and
[19:30] SPEAKER_00: CEO of Fairway divorce solutions based in Calgary. I'm Mario Toniguzzi with Calgary's podcast on
[19:37] SPEAKER_00: Canada's podcast network. Thanks for joining us today.