============================================================
TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
============================================================
[00:00] SPEAKER_02: It's Vancouver's Podcast on the Canada's Podcast Network.
[00:25] SPEAKER_01: Hello, this is Robert Smigel coming to today with a Vancouver's Podcast, a member of the Canada's Podcast Network,
[00:32] SPEAKER_01: where we talk to the entrepreneurs who are making it happen here in Vancouver, British Columbia.
[00:37] SPEAKER_01: Jeff Leidl is the founder of Gasket Games, a native of Vancouver, and has a 14-year production and biz dev background at Blackbird Interactive, Big Point, and Relic Entertainment.
[00:51] SPEAKER_01: His shipped titles include Company of Heroes, Dawn of War II, and Expansions, and Homeworld, Deserts of Correct.
[01:02] SPEAKER_01: Well, Jeff, welcome to the show. Thanks for taking the time today to be here for all our listeners.
[01:08] SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me, and thank you for braving through the names of our games.
[01:14] SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Some of those are tongue twisters.
[01:16] SPEAKER_01: Is that correct? Is that going to get that right?
[01:20] SPEAKER_00: We usually said carrot, but I can't say that carrot is wrong, it's an alien world. We don't really know.
[01:28] SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool. Okay, well, I want you to tell us a little bit more about yourself. We know you're from Vancouver, but give us the details on your new current business.
[01:39] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, so I started Gasket Games earlier this year in March. I incorporated the business.
[01:50] SPEAKER_00: And it's something I've been working on since the new year, essentially, since January.
[01:57] SPEAKER_00: I've put together a team of some former colleagues and from my time in past companies.
[02:08] SPEAKER_00: And we're building new multiplayer online enabled games that have some unique streaming technology inside them.
[02:17] SPEAKER_00: And we're building our games and looking to get those developed. So right now, we're looking for partners to help us do that.
[02:27] SPEAKER_01: Great. Okay. Now, did you need financing to start your company? And how do you currently make money in the business now?
[02:34] SPEAKER_00: So we raised a little bit of money.
[02:37] SPEAKER_00: One of my co-founders and I, we both were able to raise some funds. And we're running off of that right now as our startup capital.
[02:48] SPEAKER_00: As far as further funds, we are looking for both work for higher business in other local companies and publishing arrangements for the projects that we're developing in turn.
[03:03] SPEAKER_01: So you're looking for VC money? Is that correct?
[03:06] SPEAKER_00: Not so much VC money, but publisher funds. So people who are paying you to do a particular project rather than to invest in your company.
[03:19] SPEAKER_01: Okay. So it's like, we want to develop a game. Can you build it for us? And then you work on an ideal contract, I think.
[03:25] SPEAKER_01: That kind of thing. Yeah. Okay. Okay. What is the long-term vision? And what will your company look like in the future?
[03:32] SPEAKER_01: Do you see the company expanding into other areas and where beyond Vancouver, BC or even Canada?
[03:38] SPEAKER_00: Well, I think there's a lot of growing it can do inside Vancouver before we look outside.
[03:44] SPEAKER_00: Vancouver's got a very good talent market. And it's one of the best parts about working in the city is the how much how much talented labor is out there.
[04:00] SPEAKER_00: Having worked in another country, I know that even if your company has the means to hire, it can be difficult to find the people.
[04:11] SPEAKER_00: Here in Vancouver, because there's a long history of video game development going back probably 30 years.
[04:19] SPEAKER_00: And with some very large companies, there's a lot of senior talent. There's new young talent coming out of universities.
[04:28] SPEAKER_00: So here in Vancouver, I wouldn't be anywhere else in the near term.
[04:34] SPEAKER_00: Long term, if we build a thriving big business here in the city, I would look outside. But I think that that would be quite far down the road.
[04:42] SPEAKER_01: Okay. What are the biggest benefits for you and being an entrepreneur here in Vancouver, BC?
[04:48] SPEAKER_01: I want you to give us some of the good points about starting a company here. But I also want you to give us some of the tough things or challenges for listeners so they can keep an eye out for them.
[04:56] SPEAKER_00: Yeah. So like I already mentioned, a available staff just being able to put out a call and find a bunch of people in the same city who are qualified for the kind of work that you might need done.
[05:10] SPEAKER_00: And in game projects that can be very diverse in terms of needs between 3D art assets and programming and design and animation.
[05:23] SPEAKER_00: And the other thing is just the support network of other people who have been through this is quite strong here.
[05:32] SPEAKER_00: If you want to talk to people who have set up studios, there's a number of great studios in town and the community is good about supporting.
[05:41] SPEAKER_00: You know, we've had a lot of well wishes from our fellow colleagues and I very much appreciate that.
[05:50] SPEAKER_00: On the challenging front, you know, the cost of the city, it's not low compared to other parts of the world.
[06:01] SPEAKER_00: It is competitive compared to some of the centers in the west coast of the United States as far as cost of doing business from an employment side.
[06:12] SPEAKER_00: But compared to other markets, I know that there's, you know, we have to pay more for both rent and our staff have to pay more for rent so that ends up coming out in salaries.
[06:28] SPEAKER_01: Right. Always the real estate issue is one of the things that seems to stand out.
[06:34] SPEAKER_01: Okay, we do some of our best work outside the office. Is there a place in the lower mainland close to where you live or work, where you like to go recharge or get inspired or get ideas or just think about your business?
[06:44] SPEAKER_01: And does it change with the season, concerning all the rain we get here?
[06:49] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I'm a big fan of biking and just as a form of keeping my blood moving and I like to ride the same routes.
[06:59] SPEAKER_00: And when I need to spend time, you know, just keeping myself going, I'll look to the Vancouver Sea wall because I can do a circuit on that.
[07:11] SPEAKER_00: It's a good, it's a good run and good chance to just put my head into what I'm thinking about.
[07:20] SPEAKER_00: That does change with the season, you know, through the worst parts of November, December, it can be hard for me to be motivated to get on the bicycle just with the heavy rain that we can experience in those months.
[07:35] SPEAKER_01: So then obviously you're looking for other ways to do, to get out there, do things and contemplate.
[07:43] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm looking for them, I'm not saying I would necessarily find them.
[07:47] SPEAKER_01: Okay, good. So it's a little bit of a break.
[07:49] SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, we have a lot of international listeners.
[07:52] SPEAKER_01: So this next question I want you to speak to them.
[07:54] SPEAKER_01: If you were to start all over again and you just moved here to Vancouver, BC, but this time you don't know anyone knowing what you know now, what would you do and how would you go about starting all over again as an entrepreneur?
[08:08] SPEAKER_00: Well, as an entrepreneur, that's an interesting question.
[08:13] SPEAKER_00: So there are a number of community events within our industry and I would make sure to attend those and just meet people and talk about what you're doing.
[08:24] SPEAKER_00: There's indie events that are the group of independent game developers that are out there that have networks out into the other game studios as well.
[08:37] SPEAKER_00: And whenever there's opportunities like coming up, there's a say graph is a big convention coming to Vancouver.
[08:46] SPEAKER_00: That will usually bring out everybody from all the local industries and I would make sure to attend events like that to get a chance just to meet people and talk about what you want to do.
[08:57] SPEAKER_01: Okay, so networking is critical.
[09:00] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, networking and you know, just meeting people.
[09:04] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, good.
[09:05] SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's talk about your routine. What does the first hour look like for you when you get up the more, do you have a specific routine or a ritual that helps you get motivated to start the day?
[09:18] SPEAKER_00: You know, this is probably a bad habit, but because I have a deal with a lot of calls and you know, perspective clients in Europe and other parts of the world, I tend to be on email.
[09:29] SPEAKER_00: Very first thing in the morning, which I'm not going to recommend that anyone should do.
[09:36] SPEAKER_00: Pass that it I have a family. So there's a lot of packaging up the kids for, you know, school or here in the summers we have getting them ready for the child care.
[09:50] SPEAKER_00: That monopolizes most of that time.
[09:53] SPEAKER_01: Okay, do you think entrepreneurs have to be weird or unique in a positive way or wired differently?
[10:05] SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I would use the word weird, but I do know that you have to be willing to put yourself out there yourself.
[10:18] SPEAKER_00: To be an entrepreneur. It can't come from outside.
[10:27] SPEAKER_00: This is a strange way of describing anything, but the people that I know who have been entrepreneurs have, you know, had to stand at some point before their business was formed and say, hey, I have this half an idea.
[10:45] SPEAKER_00: And I want to make it into a whole one. And they had to say that a lot for before they got going.
[10:55] SPEAKER_00: And you have to be comfortable doing that, which I do think is maybe a bit of an unusual trait in people.
[11:03] SPEAKER_00: There's a strong desire to know everything that you're going to be doing before you move forward.
[11:09] SPEAKER_00: If you look at how professional people like to work, they like to gather up their requirements and know exactly what they're going to do and then go to work.
[11:19] SPEAKER_00: So you've got to be comfortable with ambiguity in that side, I think.
[11:24] SPEAKER_00: That might be a less common.
[11:27] SPEAKER_01: Right. Uncertainty, I guess, is another way to describe it.
[11:31] SPEAKER_00: Yes, uncertainty is a great word for it.
[11:33] SPEAKER_01: Right. Okay, what books do you reading now and why are even audio books? And can you recommend any books for our listeners who are also aspiring entrepreneurs?
[11:43] SPEAKER_00: Just in general, I've gotten great, great mileage out of knock on the gladwells books over the years, just as far as recommendations go.
[11:53] SPEAKER_00: So this includes outliers and the tipping point.
[12:00] SPEAKER_00: Blink is another one of his books, I believe. Please fact check me before you.
[12:04] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're correct. Yeah, I know.
[12:06] SPEAKER_01: I read his books. Yeah, you're right.
[12:09] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[12:09] SPEAKER_00: But as for right now, what I'm what I'm spending most of my time reading is industry news and trends.
[12:18] SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of online postings. We're doing a lot of work in the online streaming space.
[12:25] SPEAKER_00: And actually my own habits didn't intersect heavily with watching a lot of streams and videos.
[12:31] SPEAKER_00: So understanding that culture has been a big part of what I've been trying to learn.
[12:36] SPEAKER_00: And I try and stay appraised on everything that's happening in industry wide.
[12:42] SPEAKER_01: Oh, the new technology coming out new games, things like that.
[12:45] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[12:46] SPEAKER_00: And where different companies who are investing, who we may want to be affiliated with, are strategically positioning themselves as well.
[12:55] SPEAKER_01: Okay. Any online or offline tools that you like to use on a daily basis?
[13:03] SPEAKER_00: As far as I've got a couple things for self organization, you know, I have a Trello board for, hey, I've got to keep everything that I'm doing in order.
[13:17] SPEAKER_00: And then that's more that's more the online tool.
[13:23] SPEAKER_00: And I maintain a logbook as well, just of, you know, people I've talked to and things like that.
[13:30] SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, going through setting up a company, you go through a lot of different phases.
[13:36] SPEAKER_00: And some of them are pretty intensive, but temporary things like, hey, you're going to do legal incorporation of your company.
[13:41] SPEAKER_00: So you have to figure a whole bunch of things out and you talk to people.
[13:45] SPEAKER_00: But you might forget about that a couple months later.
[13:48] SPEAKER_00: So having, having things written down helps me when I'm trying to reference back.
[13:53] SPEAKER_00: Hey, why did we do this thing?
[13:55] SPEAKER_01: Okay.
[13:56] SPEAKER_01: If you were doing what you do now, what would you like to do for a profession?
[14:05] SPEAKER_00: That's a really good question.
[14:07] SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, I came into games kind of organically, which is another, you know, completely unaffiliated line of work.
[14:18] SPEAKER_00: Knowing what I know now, I think if I had known how the world was going to develop this kind of related, I may have pursued something with respect to 3D graphics.
[14:32] SPEAKER_00: You know, just in putting together games, I've learned a lot about how 3D rendering works and stuff like that.
[14:39] SPEAKER_00: And I'm no expert in actually doing it, but I have to have a peripheral knowledge and seeing how companies like Pixar and the, you know, there's a lot of local online or local studios as well working in VFX have been pushing CGI would be of high interest to me.
[15:01] SPEAKER_00: That I would probably end up somewhere there if video games with was off limits.
[15:07] SPEAKER_01: Okay. So the 3D animation would be, what kind of job would you not like to do? Couldn't do it.
[15:20] SPEAKER_00: I think I would struggle with any job that didn't have me regularly interacting with people.
[15:27] SPEAKER_00: So if a job is heavily analytics based and, you know, very few points of contact outside of your core group, that might be a job function I could do, but I would definitely not enjoy it.
[15:43] SPEAKER_00: I need social contact. So it's just something I've always had to pursue.
[15:50] SPEAKER_01: In business, what is your favorite word, quote, or sentence that you like to use?
[15:58] SPEAKER_01: Favorite. Everything right in the office, you people say, yeah, he uses that a lot.
[16:06] SPEAKER_00: I definitely have said the word, you know, epic a lot in my past, just in terms of trying to draw big visions.
[16:16] SPEAKER_00: I've used the word cinematic a lot. I like to engage in lateral thinking about problem solving.
[16:28] SPEAKER_00: I may be the guy saying big picture. Or step back and look at the forest for the trees.
[16:36] SPEAKER_01: Okay. Those are cliche. Find yourself using those every once in a while.
[16:42] SPEAKER_01: What is your least favorite word or sentence you do not like to hear?
[16:50] SPEAKER_00: It is what it is.
[16:55] SPEAKER_00: Specifically when it's applied to situations that you actually do have agency or control over.
[17:04] SPEAKER_00: That phrase comes from, it's a mantra for acceptance.
[17:08] SPEAKER_00: There are externalities in your life that you have to accept.
[17:13] SPEAKER_00: If somebody works for you, decides that they want to go do something else, it is what it is.
[17:19] SPEAKER_00: But when it is something that is under your control, it's a sentence that really gets at me.
[17:27] SPEAKER_00: It feels like shirking accountability.
[17:31] SPEAKER_01: Okay. If you had to pick one or two words to describe yourself, what would it be and why?
[17:42] SPEAKER_00: I would go with enthusiastic as a word to describe me.
[17:47] SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a specific flavor of passion that I try and bring to it.
[17:53] SPEAKER_00: I try and be enthusiastic to everything I'm hearing and all the ideas that come up in a room.
[18:02] SPEAKER_00: I would like to think focused as one of them, but I don't know if that's always true.
[18:08] SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
[18:10] SPEAKER_01: Okay. What keeps you up at night if anything?
[18:16] SPEAKER_00: Caffeine.
[18:17] SPEAKER_00: So if I drink coffee to lighten the day, that definitely does it.
[18:22] SPEAKER_00: And that's my warning to a lot of people who might be experiencing trouble sleeping.
[18:31] SPEAKER_00: I can get, I often get excited about a problem and an idea.
[18:40] SPEAKER_00: And this can be often happening when I've had caffeine.
[18:44] SPEAKER_00: And I'll be grinding on that.
[18:46] SPEAKER_00: And that can get me to keep me awake at night.
[18:51] SPEAKER_00: These days, it's more positive things that keep me awake than negative things.
[18:56] SPEAKER_00: If that makes any sense.
[18:58] SPEAKER_01: Okay. Okay. I want you to give us the top three things on your inspired lifeless.
[19:02] SPEAKER_01: This could be a bucket list of any sort, whether you want to travel more, whether you want to do write a book, TEDx Talk.
[19:09] SPEAKER_01: Anything outside of that, out of your regular occupation, your business?
[19:18] SPEAKER_01: Three things.
[19:22] SPEAKER_00: I've had a good chance to travel in my life, but I would definitely like an opportunity to live in another country and culture again.
[19:32] SPEAKER_00: I love Vancouver and it's my home.
[19:36] SPEAKER_00: We had a wonderful time living in Germany and what that did for our family was fantastic.
[19:44] SPEAKER_00: So living in another country would be one.
[19:47] SPEAKER_01: Okay.
[19:49] SPEAKER_00: I used to pass part of my life sailboats.
[19:55] SPEAKER_00: And it's been a long time since my life has made room for that hobby.
[20:03] SPEAKER_00: And I would definitely like to do that again if I couldn't do it on a regular basis, say owning a boat.
[20:10] SPEAKER_00: I'd like to do an adventurous trip on a sailboat.
[20:13] SPEAKER_00: I get something like a, you know, a thick Maui race or something where you go somewhere and you achieve some big distance.
[20:21] SPEAKER_00: I think that would be cool.
[20:28] SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I'm thinking outside professional goals here.
[20:32] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm about to write a book. TEDx Talk.
[20:34] SPEAKER_01: You like that?
[20:36] SPEAKER_00: I would like to give a GDC presentation on something that we were very successful at within our own company.
[20:44] SPEAKER_00: So I'm working on the, we're very successful at part right now.
[20:48] SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
[20:49] SPEAKER_01: Do you have any advice that you may have received that you can pass on to entrepreneur, sort of British Columbia?
[20:59] SPEAKER_00: I wish I could credit the source for this.
[21:03] SPEAKER_00: Just it was something I read somewhere in an article, but the words stuck out with me.
[21:09] SPEAKER_00: So I'm afraid I can't remember who said it, but advice I read was, start-ups don't fail.
[21:17] SPEAKER_00: They stop.
[21:18] SPEAKER_00: At some points, the, the people who are running them, the ones who, who stop are, because they hit an emotional break point,
[21:34] SPEAKER_00: that where they lost the will to do it.
[21:36] SPEAKER_00: Now, that might be linked to you ran out of money and you just, you're losing,
[21:43] SPEAKER_00: you're losing the emotional energy to go and re-raise or do whatever it is you need to do.
[21:49] SPEAKER_00: But I do like to frame it that way because it gives me a more everyday,
[21:57] SPEAKER_00: an access of control, if that makes sense, is making sure that every day I continue to be excited about what it is I'm doing.
[22:06] SPEAKER_00: Because that is, I think, the, the key part to getting through uncertain times.
[22:14] SPEAKER_01: To persevere the persistence element.
[22:18] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and remembering why, remembering why you are doing those things, even if you don't feel, feel that in that moment.
[22:27] SPEAKER_00: And protecting, you know, making sure that you don't expose yourself to too much negativity or fear from,
[22:35] SPEAKER_00: just the external factors that are out there.
[22:38] SPEAKER_00: Become, I don't watch the news as an example, right?
[22:41] SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't watch the news because the amount of profound negativity that it exposes in an indirect way could hurt what it is I'm trying to do.
[22:51] SPEAKER_01: Right. Right. Yeah, it's one of those things where you have to be the gatekeeper from getting too much negativity to your brain that is going to, you know,
[23:01] SPEAKER_01: drip down into what you're doing and your motivation for why you keep going.
[23:07] SPEAKER_00: And that has a big impact like building, building most companies as a group effort.
[23:12] SPEAKER_00: And if the people running it are, are trapped in that, it's going to have the whole company.
[23:22] SPEAKER_01: Okay. Okay, Jeff, you ready to have some fun?
[23:28] SPEAKER_00: Yes. We haven't fun already.
[23:30] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we are, but we're going to even have more fun.
[23:32] SPEAKER_01: So earlier you said you'd like to have the chance to live in another country.
[23:36] SPEAKER_01: So we're going to give you the chance to do that.
[23:37] SPEAKER_01: But as you know, entrepreneurs are very, very busy people. We're always connected.
[23:41] SPEAKER_01: Whether it be staff, whether it be clients, you name it, we're always on the go.
[23:47] SPEAKER_01: But there's a small tropical island just off of Fiji that only has one phone booth there.
[23:51] SPEAKER_01: There is no internet. This place does exist by the way.
[23:54] SPEAKER_01: We're going to drop you off there.
[23:56] SPEAKER_01: You won't have a computer or a smartphone or tablet.
[23:58] SPEAKER_01: You can use the phone booth located there any time to call the boat and will come pick you up.
[24:03] SPEAKER_01: How long would you last before you made that call?
[24:06] SPEAKER_01: And what would you do while you were there?
[24:12] SPEAKER_00: I love this question.
[24:15] SPEAKER_00: I think I could probably last three months.
[24:22] SPEAKER_00: You know, assuming I can eat all my needs are met there.
[24:28] SPEAKER_00: The opportunity to be at a beach is quite wonderful.
[24:32] SPEAKER_00: I would probably be swimming every day.
[24:35] SPEAKER_00: I had the opportunity to travel, not to Fiji, but to another warm tropical place in my early 20s.
[24:43] SPEAKER_00: And I learned that I really like swimming and I just like being out when I'm outside of the city trappings.
[24:50] SPEAKER_00: I think it would go for about three months before I got bored with, you know, doing good things for my body by exercising every day in the ocean.
[25:00] SPEAKER_01: And the exceptional tan.
[25:03] SPEAKER_01: Yeah. So you'd say two months, three months, depending on three months.
[25:07] SPEAKER_01: Three months, three months, three months.
[25:09] SPEAKER_01: Okay, before you call the boat. So we're going to be sitting out there for a while.
[25:12] SPEAKER_01: Yeah. Okay. Great. We're going to wrap things up.
[25:15] SPEAKER_01: How can our listeners get hold of you?
[25:16] SPEAKER_01: And is there anything you'd like to add before you leave us today?
[25:23] SPEAKER_00: So you can get a hold of me by looking at our website, www.gasketgains.com.
[25:31] SPEAKER_00: From there, you can find links to our Twitter and Facebook pages, which we have updated a little and we will be updating more.
[25:40] SPEAKER_00: I would like to send out a big thank you to the local video game industry for their enthusiasm and support and getting our company started.
[25:55] SPEAKER_00: It's been a wonderful experience so far.
[25:58] SPEAKER_00: We have a long way to go, but I've been thrilled with the positivity that's come out of our former colleagues and our fellow game developers in the city.
[26:15] SPEAKER_00: I would like to leave people with the thought that's been going through my mind, you know, in setting up a company is I may not be fully ready for everything.
[26:28] SPEAKER_00: But I'm probably more ready than I ever have been in my life and maybe more ready right now than I ever will be to start this business.
[26:39] SPEAKER_00: And you may be too if this is a thought that you have in your head.
[26:45] SPEAKER_00: The advantage of the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago and second best time is right now.
[26:55] SPEAKER_00: It is something that I take the heart and if this is something that you are listening to this podcast for, I encourage you to do everything you can to go do that.
[27:06] SPEAKER_00: I have had more fun in the last few months setting up this business than I have ever had professionally and I've had a lot of fun in my career.
[27:15] SPEAKER_01: In gaming, how could you not have fun? It sounds like a fun industry.
[27:20] SPEAKER_01: Okay, Jeff, thank you for coming on the show. I've learned a lot about you and I'm sure our listeners listeners have as well.
[27:26] SPEAKER_01: And we'll see you next time.
[27:26] SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
[27:28] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[27:28] SPEAKER_00: Alright.
[27:30] SPEAKER_01: Okay. We'll see you next time. Cheers.
[27:32] SPEAKER_01: Bye.
[27:36] SPEAKER_02: Hey there. Thanks for taking the time today to listen to the band who was podcast on the Canada podcast network.
[27:41] SPEAKER_02: We hope you enjoyed this show today. Make sure you sign up for our newsletters and write a review for us on iTunes.
[27:48] SPEAKER_02: Then connect with us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn at Canada's podcast.
[27:53] SPEAKER_02: You can also check out what other entrepreneurs are doing across the country. See you next time.
[28:18] Speaker UNKNOWN: You
