Janet Candido, Principal of Candido Consulting Group is an Authority on Workplace Systems & Culture

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[00:00] SPEAKER_03: Welcome to Canada's podcast, the number one podcast for entrepreneurs by
[00:06] SPEAKER_03: entrepreneurs. Hi, welcome to Canada's podcast. I'm your host,
[00:10] SPEAKER_03: Celine Williams and today I'm joined by Janet Candido. Janet is the principal
[00:14] SPEAKER_03: of Candido Consulting Group. She is an authority on workplace systems and culture.
[00:20] SPEAKER_03: With more than 20 years of business and HR expertise, she provides innovative solutions
[00:25] SPEAKER_03: for clients with the goal of helping organizations, executive teams and their employees
[00:31] SPEAKER_03: reach optimal performance. Janet, thank you for joining us today. Thank you for having me,
[00:37] SPEAKER_03: Celine. It's a pleasure. I'm really, so I love culture, so I'm really hoping we get to talk
[00:42] SPEAKER_03: about this a little bit because it's totally a thing that I love in organizations and before we do that.
[00:47] SPEAKER_03: I want to learn a little bit more about you. So how did you, what has your journey been
[00:52] SPEAKER_03: to get to, you know, running your own business and being an entrepreneur and doing the kind of work
[00:57] SPEAKER_03: that you're doing now because it's rarely a linear journey that gets us where we are?
[01:03] SPEAKER_00: That's true. That's true. I started my career in banking with Lloyd's Bank Canada,
[01:11] SPEAKER_00: although I was in HR, I was in the learning and development area. And as I fondly put it,
[01:20] SPEAKER_00: I taught bankers how to lend money. I love that.
[01:26] SPEAKER_00: I went from there to a global engineering firm that had offices in ported countries around the world,
[01:35] SPEAKER_00: no HR function at all. Yeah, it's hard to believe, isn't it? Yeah. So I set up the whole HR
[01:44] SPEAKER_00: function for the company. I have to admit, I don't think I realized that it was going to be quite as
[01:50] SPEAKER_00: challenging as it was going from a nice, orderly banking environment to a more spread out engineering
[02:00] SPEAKER_00: environment. It was, it was interesting. It was challenging. I learned a lot. And when I had set it all up,
[02:09] SPEAKER_00: I started getting bored. And what I was really interested in at the time,
[02:15] SPEAKER_00: and I was becoming more interested, it was different business models, how different businesses operate,
[02:23] SPEAKER_00: whether it's because they're in different industry sectors or they're in different stages of growth.
[02:31] SPEAKER_00: And I knew that if I just went to work for another company, it would just be one other business that I would learn.
[02:39] SPEAKER_00: And once I've learned it, I'd be bored again. So that's when I decided to go out on my own.
[02:50] SPEAKER_00: I can't say that I initially thought, oh, I'm going to be an entrepreneur.
[02:55] SPEAKER_00: I don't think I even realized that's what I was doing for a few years, because I was so busy learning about different
[03:04] SPEAKER_00: businesses and trying to get involved with different industry sectors and understanding their models,
[03:12] SPEAKER_00: that the fact that I was an entrepreneur just sort of completely went over my head.
[03:19] SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't until a few years later, when I was at a point in the business where I either had to start turning work down,
[03:32] SPEAKER_00: or I had to get serious about actually building business.
[03:37] SPEAKER_00: So turning work down was just totally unthinkable.
[03:43] SPEAKER_00: And so I went to the other route and started more seriously building a business.
[03:51] SPEAKER_03: It's funny. I laugh, but I think that for a lot of entrepreneurs, it is that moment,
[03:56] SPEAKER_03: or they realize they're entrepreneurs, or they're really own, they're running a business when they have to make that decision.
[04:02] SPEAKER_03: Like, can I, if I can't take on this work myself, I have to turn it down.
[04:07] SPEAKER_03: And that is the point where they're either really doubling down on owning a business and being an entrepreneur,
[04:13] SPEAKER_03: or they change their tactic and strategy and go another route.
[04:17] SPEAKER_00: And I can definitely relate to that.
[04:20] SPEAKER_00: I said that turning work down was unthinkable.
[04:23] SPEAKER_00: I have this still have this superstitious belief that if I turn work down, it's just all going to fall apart.
[04:34] SPEAKER_00: So I really wanted to just keep going, keep going forward.
[04:38] SPEAKER_00: And that's when I started to actually hire people.
[04:43] SPEAKER_00: And as I said, build the business.
[04:46] SPEAKER_03: So I want to ask a little bit about that because I think that when we are growing a business and when we are moving from a solo
[04:54] SPEAKER_03: to a solo entrepreneur where everything is on your shoulders and it's all you all the time and you're doing all of the things.
[04:59] SPEAKER_03: That transition to a business owner where you have team members of some sort, whether they're part time or contract or full time,
[05:07] SPEAKER_03: whatever their roles are, that's a whole different level of responsibility.
[05:10] SPEAKER_03: And it's a whole different feeling as an owner of business.
[05:14] SPEAKER_03: And I'm curious what your experience going through that was like.
[05:18] SPEAKER_03: And what worked or didn't work or what you enjoyed or didn't enjoy about it because I think all of those things can coexist.
[05:27] SPEAKER_00: What surprised me was that although it helped me on the actual doing work piece, it made more work in everything else.
[05:38] SPEAKER_00: So hiring people, kind of slotting them appropriately.
[05:45] SPEAKER_00: The care and feeding of employees, the all of the, you know, the administration, all of that didn't ease.
[05:55] SPEAKER_00: That was still there. It got bigger in some cases.
[05:59] SPEAKER_00: So it was something of a surprise, not that I thought something that was going to hire people in life was going to be easy for me,
[06:06] SPEAKER_00: but it just happened to occur to me that hiring people was going to expand the workload I could handle,
[06:13] SPEAKER_00: but it wasn't going to impact anything about the running the business piece.
[06:19] SPEAKER_00: And in fact, it got more complicated right now.
[06:21] SPEAKER_00: Now I had some employees, I had payroll issues and everything that comes along with having employees.
[06:30] SPEAKER_03: Absolutely. Did you find that you enjoyed that or was that something that I'm not to say that you didn't end up enjoying it because I appreciate that at a certain point.
[06:42] SPEAKER_03: But when that realization hit and there were these new complications, was it something that you were like, oh, I actually, and I asked this just for context,
[06:50] SPEAKER_03: because I wonder from an HR background, if you're like, oh, this is actually interesting and enjoyable in some way, shape or form, or if it's like, no, this is, I do not enjoy this.
[07:00] SPEAKER_03: I want to figure out outsourcing this part of my business because it doesn't sound like it's what you were really wanting to do. It's not what your business was.
[07:10] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly. It's not something I enjoyed, especially the first employee hire is challenging because you're trying to entice somebody to come and work for you when it's just you.
[07:28] SPEAKER_00: They don't have a team to work with. They don't have colleagues and they're going to be worried about job security.
[07:37] SPEAKER_00: So that first hire is challenging and then learning how to to work with them. I found more challenging than, I mean, in both of my previous jobs, I had staff, but this was different.
[07:53] SPEAKER_00: I'm not really sure why, but it was different.
[07:56] SPEAKER_00: Hiring the second and third one that became easier and it probably won't surprise you to hear that my first hire, hire is everybody forming it.
[08:06] SPEAKER_03: I love that. Yeah, it's a great lesson that I don't think people always think about as they're growing a business is you don't have to be the one that does it for the rest of time.
[08:16] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
[08:17] SPEAKER_03: The more your team expands, the more you get to lean into the things that you really like doing and not the things you don't like doing.
[08:24] SPEAKER_00: That's true.
[08:25] SPEAKER_03: So I want to hear a little bit more about the work that you do and to me, it sounds like you are in a very interesting position as someone who, you know, runs a business and has a team and gets to work with other businesses that have teams.
[08:39] SPEAKER_03: So you get to see all these different ways of operating and, you know, what's working for people, what's not working for people.
[08:46] SPEAKER_03: And I love some of your insight on what you see and, you know, what you love in the work that you're doing because it sounds that like there's this interweaving of things that are really interesting way when it comes to perspectives.
[09:01] SPEAKER_00: So I'll say that in general, we do everything that falls under the title of HR.
[09:10] SPEAKER_00: So we are engaged to do, you know, build pace systems, performance management systems, do training, you know, create an HR function.
[09:21] SPEAKER_00: We are hired to do all of that.
[09:24] SPEAKER_00: What I especially like doing and, and where I probably add more value is working with another entrepreneur or a growing business.
[09:36] SPEAKER_00: And how are they going to grow it?
[09:39] SPEAKER_00: And not from the financial point of view, obviously, but from the people point of view, how do you grow it?
[09:45] SPEAKER_00: How do you decide who and what you should be adding?
[09:49] SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you need to change your organizational structure.
[09:53] SPEAKER_00: I've just been through that with, with a client that had a certain organizational structure that really worked for her as her company was growing.
[10:04] SPEAKER_00: And then reached a point where it wasn't working anymore and she was really struggling to try and figure out what wasn't working and why it wasn't working.
[10:16] SPEAKER_00: And we worked together to identify that the problem was the structure, the way the work was organized, the way the reporting relationships were working.
[10:27] SPEAKER_00: And when we started working to redefine that, we found that we were actually able to reduce her work force and the remaining work force was much more productive, much happier, things are going much more smoothly.
[10:46] SPEAKER_00: So the structure, how things are organized can make such a huge impact on a company.
[10:53] SPEAKER_00: And a lot of entrepreneurs don't realize that as they grow, as they get bigger, especially if they get more complex, they need to rethink this.
[11:04] SPEAKER_00: They need to rethink how they're structured, how they're working together, you know, how the culture is impacting that work as well.
[11:13] SPEAKER_03: It reminds me a little bit of Paddy McCord and the work that she did that she did at Netflix and she's been very open about, you know, when they down, they, I mean, they went down size more than once, but when they downsized, you know, one of the original times when they were converting from DVDs to digital or whatever it was.
[11:31] SPEAKER_03: And they needed different skill sets and they let go. I think it's a third of the work forces who they is how much they let go of.
[11:38] SPEAKER_03: And it was sad and it was challenging and people were much more efficient at the work that they were doing and it changed the culture in a wonderful way.
[11:48] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[11:48] SPEAKER_03: And I love what you're talking about because it's easy to see an example like Netflix and go, well, yeah, of course, I mean, it was a thousand people or 500 people or whatever.
[11:58] SPEAKER_03: But if you're running a company of 20 people or 50 people and it's a growing company, the same philosophy applies, you just execute it differently.
[12:07] SPEAKER_00: Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
[12:09] SPEAKER_00: And this is a company of about 45 employees and what you start to realize when you really get into the inner workings and this is not to say that the owner of the CEO is not doing their job properly.
[12:27] SPEAKER_00: They're just too, they're just too into it. It's been the way it's been for a long time.
[12:35] SPEAKER_00: And when you can come in from the outside and see everything fresh, these things are more obvious to you.
[12:43] SPEAKER_00: And we're saying, you know, the reporting relationships here aren't working.
[12:48] SPEAKER_00: People don't know where they're supposed to go to get what done.
[12:52] SPEAKER_00: And there are clashes, there are priority issues.
[12:57] SPEAKER_00: There's all the things that happen when you're actually overstaffed.
[13:01] SPEAKER_03: Right.
[13:03] SPEAKER_03: You know, I think that having an outside perspective is extraordinarily valuable for business owners and business leaders, whether, you know, wherever they're at.
[13:13] SPEAKER_03: And I think there's often a lot of resistance to it.
[13:18] SPEAKER_03: And I wonder if you encounter some of that resistance or you experience it yourself as a business owner, I know I do.
[13:24] SPEAKER_03: I definitely do.
[13:27] SPEAKER_03: But if you do either as a consultant or running your own business and, you know, where you see where you see it show up most often or what you might offer to people who are experiencing some of that resistance to outside advice,
[13:41] SPEAKER_03: shifting a perspective, wanting to change anything because I think a lot of that falls under the same category quite often.
[13:49] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
[13:51] SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the things that I hear a lot is we've always done it like this.
[13:57] SPEAKER_03: It's my least favorite phrase.
[13:59] SPEAKER_03: It's just the way we've all done it.
[14:00] SPEAKER_03: It's just the way, this is how we've done things.
[14:02] SPEAKER_00: I know.
[14:03] SPEAKER_00: Or as I said to one, one client before he became a client.
[14:10] SPEAKER_00: It worked in 1957.
[14:12] SPEAKER_00: It works now.
[14:14] SPEAKER_00: I mean, come on people.
[14:15] SPEAKER_00: The world has changed.
[14:17] SPEAKER_00: Look at how your product changes.
[14:20] SPEAKER_00: I don't understand why people think their product changes, their market changes, their clients change.
[14:27] SPEAKER_00: But their employees stay the same.
[14:30] SPEAKER_00: So I think there's a number of things that come into play in terms of why they do.
[14:36] SPEAKER_00: We do not want to make those changes.
[14:40] SPEAKER_00: For one thing, they think it's going to be expensive.
[14:43] SPEAKER_00: And it can be challenging to explain that the money you're spending now is a lot less than what you're going to spend if you don't make those changes.
[14:54] SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
[14:55] SPEAKER_00: And it's a lot of work.
[14:57] SPEAKER_00: It can be a lot of work.
[15:00] SPEAKER_00: So to undertake an exercise like that requires commitment and it requires time and it requires real will to do it.
[15:10] SPEAKER_00: And that's not necessarily there either.
[15:14] SPEAKER_03: Right.
[15:15] SPEAKER_03: I think that's a really, I think it's a really great point, especially in a culture, societal culture, not necessarily company culture, although also that sometimes.
[15:23] SPEAKER_03: But in a culture where we focus on being busy and busyness and filling time to take the time out to do something that feels like a lot of time demand up front.
[15:36] SPEAKER_03: And you can't quantify the return necessarily ahead of time.
[15:41] SPEAKER_03: I can imagine the amount of resistance that is there to any of that sort of work.
[15:45] SPEAKER_00: There's less resistance from entrepreneurs than there is from more established companies, which you might expect.
[15:55] SPEAKER_03: That's interesting.
[15:57] SPEAKER_03: That's really interesting.
[15:59] SPEAKER_03: So when you with all the work that you've done and especially around.
[16:05] SPEAKER_03: I think it's, I think the fact that you have all this experience with the people side of business specifically.
[16:11] SPEAKER_03: As well as the business model and business design piece is really interesting.
[16:17] SPEAKER_03: Is there any advice that you would give to entrepreneurs who are running a growing business to be aware of or be mindful of or intentional about as they are growing the business because I'm guessing you've seen a lot of the pitfalls.
[16:32] SPEAKER_03: Also always curious to hear those.
[16:35] SPEAKER_03: But as well as the successes.
[16:37] SPEAKER_00: And that's a good question. I think that what they need to pay attention to is how their external business is changing.
[16:47] SPEAKER_00: And how that's going to impact their internal workings.
[16:51] SPEAKER_00: And if they're opening up new markets or if they're moving from one market to another.
[16:59] SPEAKER_00: Or if they're making any kind of a significant change, they need to start thinking about what do I need to do internally to support this.
[17:09] SPEAKER_00: And don't just assume employees are going to come along for the ride because they're not necessarily going to do that or be able to do that.
[17:20] SPEAKER_00: As entrepreneurs, I think we're always looking forward.
[17:24] SPEAKER_00: And we need to be reminded to be present.
[17:28] SPEAKER_00: Look not behind you, but look at what's happening right now.
[17:33] SPEAKER_00: And really pay attention to what your employees are saying and what they're experiencing.
[17:39] SPEAKER_00: And evaluate their readiness for what it is you want to do.
[17:43] SPEAKER_03: I think being present is challenging at the best of times for a lot of people.
[17:51] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's true.
[17:53] SPEAKER_00: Just because we're always thinking there's so much to do.
[17:56] SPEAKER_00: I have so much to do. I can't take the time to just sit here and be present.
[18:02] SPEAKER_00: Right. It feels like a waste of time when you know it really isn't.
[18:07] SPEAKER_03: Do you have any suggestions or tips or anything for entrepreneurs on remaining present or or and maybe it's something that you do yourself or that you've seen work with other people, but is there.
[18:19] SPEAKER_03: Is there anything that you would suggest that could help?
[18:23] SPEAKER_00: I find that what sir, you know, there are things that work for me and there are things that I've seen work for others.
[18:29] SPEAKER_00: And one of them is really to put some focus on on you know what I'll call self care.
[18:38] SPEAKER_00: Something that takes you actually takes you out of the business into something else that frees up your mind.
[18:46] SPEAKER_00: So you know, I'm a ceramic artist and when I am sitting somewhere with my hands up to and play up to my elbows,
[18:58] SPEAKER_00: that's what I'm focused on. I'm focused on what it is I'm making, what it is I'm building.
[19:05] SPEAKER_00: And I'm not thinking about work, but it's in the back of my mind and I can't tell you how many times after I've spent a few hours in the studio,
[19:16] SPEAKER_00: I come out, I'm refreshed and suddenly I have ideas for how I'm going to solve certain issues that I'm looking at for clients.
[19:25] SPEAKER_00: Just because it keeps your brain arrest, gives your brain time to think and just review.
[19:34] SPEAKER_00: If you're just continuously going forward, as I said, like, you know, I've got to do this and this and this and here's my to-do list,
[19:42] SPEAKER_00: you don't really take the time to actually think about it and internalize it and is it the best you can come up with?
[19:53] SPEAKER_00: You know, I know people who regularly go away for the weekend, they go hiking or they go swimming or they do something that is entirely different from their work and they get the same benefit from it.
[20:09] SPEAKER_03: I want to actually very specifically thank you for defining what you mean by self-care and giving an example because I think I've heard so many people say it as a, you know, self-care Sunday.
[20:21] SPEAKER_03: You need to have more self-care and then there's no, right? But then there's no parameters and I, you know, what I hear you saying is that self-care is really about doing something that you enjoy that disconnects you from your everyday work that allows your brain to do it so like to go do whatever it is.
[20:41] SPEAKER_03: It doesn't have to be about taking a bath. It doesn't have to be about getting a massage. If that's your thing that's fine, but I feel like quite often those are the sorts of examples that are given.
[20:51] SPEAKER_03: Who get a massage and a pedicure?
[20:53] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know I hear that a lot and I hear, you know, people talk about self-care and what they're really talking about is, as you said, taking a bath or going to the spa and having a spa day.
[21:06] SPEAKER_00: And I'm certainly not against that.
[21:08] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
[21:09] SPEAKER_00: Right? But it doesn't actually take you out of the present and give you the opportunity to clear your mind.
[21:18] SPEAKER_00: Right.
[21:18] SPEAKER_00: Refresh your mind and just, you know, as I said, do something that's entirely different and it's, you know, almost like a mini vacation.
[21:30] SPEAKER_03: Well, and it's interesting because what I hear inside of what you said, and by the way, I love that you're a ceramic artist. I think that is very cool.
[21:36] SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
[21:37] SPEAKER_03: So I just want to acknowledge that.
[21:38] SPEAKER_03: But also it, the examples that you gave, what I hear in, you know, so doing, you know, making ceramics, going for a hike, swimming is that it's, it's something that is an actual activity in some way.
[21:53] SPEAKER_03: So it's not passively receiving a massage, passively receiving a, and again, I agree with you, there's nothing wrong with any of those.
[22:02] SPEAKER_03: But it doesn't necessarily take you out of your own brain in the same way.
[22:08] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
[22:10] SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the important thing.
[22:12] SPEAKER_00: I think that's the piece that actually benefits you.
[22:15] SPEAKER_00: It's something that takes you out of your own brain.
[22:18] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love that. I think that's a phenomenal tip. And I, and truly, how you phrase that I think is, is unique and incredibly important because we hear so much about self care.
[22:30] SPEAKER_03: And then it's not really, you know, people are booking miss out. Listen, I appreciate a massage next, the much as, you know, as much as the next person.
[22:38] SPEAKER_03: That is not the same as, you know, my version of, of making ceramics to get me out of my head. It's not. That is me in my head for another hour.
[22:49] SPEAKER_00: And actually, I find sometimes that while I'm doing that, if I'm having a massage, and instead of getting me out of my head, it's just it, it, it intensifies it.
[23:01] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely. Right. So it has the opposite effect.
[23:06] SPEAKER_03: Yes. Yeah.
[23:07] SPEAKER_03: I could not agree more. It's almost for me. I, it can sometimes feel like now I am so in my own thoughts that whatever I was stuck on, I get more stuck on because I'm circulating in that space in my own head for whatever that period of time is.
[23:23] SPEAKER_03: I think I think that's really valuable. So thank you very much for that.
[23:27] SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
[23:29] SPEAKER_03: I want to ask you whether it's from your perspective or people you've worked with, but what are some of the biggest challenges that you face or you hear people facing in making the transition, especially from a corporate environment to being an entrepreneur because that, that is, that's a very, it's a different world.
[23:48] SPEAKER_03: It's a whole different beast.
[23:50] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it sure is.
[23:52] SPEAKER_00: Good question. I think one of the things is suddenly finding out that you have to do everything yourself.
[24:01] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[24:02] SPEAKER_00: There's, you know, you don't have a handy little IT help desk in the next cubicle.
[24:09] SPEAKER_00: Nobody else is bordering office supplies for you.
[24:14] SPEAKER_00: You don't have an accounting department to create the invoice and collect on the invoice. So you have to do everything, which means you have to either figure out how to get it done or learn how to do it yourself.
[24:27] SPEAKER_00: And I think the other thing is, which is probably even more of an issue is the loneliness that can come from being an entrepreneur.
[24:40] SPEAKER_00: Right. You don't have your colleagues. You don't have the, you know, somebody making coffee in the kitchen at area and you can talk about your weekend with them.
[24:53] SPEAKER_00: You can't brainstorm easily with somebody because you're, you're brainstorming with yourself.
[25:00] SPEAKER_00: And I know I found that challenging initially for sure. And I hear that a lot from other entrepreneurs that one of the reasons they joined networking groups is to have the group.
[25:16] SPEAKER_00: To have the other people that they can talk to.
[25:21] SPEAKER_03: I don't think we talk about that enough as entrepreneurs. I work with a lot of executives and executives are much more aware of that loneliness that happens, you know, the more senior you are in organizations, the lonelier it gets.
[25:34] SPEAKER_03: And they talk about it. They're more aware of it. There's more conversation around it. There's a billion articles around about that online.
[25:40] SPEAKER_03: I think it's a very similar thing as an entrepreneur, especially when you transition from a team environment to being a solo entrepreneur.
[25:47] SPEAKER_03: And I, I don't think we talk about it enough. And I don't think, I don't think we acknowledge how lonely it is, especially at the beginning.
[25:56] SPEAKER_00: Yeah. And you know, even when you have a team, you're very conscious that you're the head of that team.
[26:05] SPEAKER_00: So there are some things you can speak to your team about.
[26:09] SPEAKER_00: But there are a lot of things you can, like you're not going to sit down with your team and say, you know what, we don't have enough work next month. And I'm really worried about that.
[26:19] SPEAKER_00: It's just not a conversation you can have with them, right?
[26:23] SPEAKER_00: Or talk to them about a particular challenge you're facing with running the company.
[26:31] SPEAKER_00: You can talk to them about things that are happening with the work, with the clients.
[26:36] SPEAKER_00: You can even speak with them about things I give the time to hire a new person and how should we do it.
[26:43] SPEAKER_00: But the actual nuts and bolts of running the business, you can't speak to your team about that.
[26:50] SPEAKER_03: Yeah. I think that's a really valid point. And I think it's a good awareness for anyone who is listening, who has recently made the transition or is planning to make the transition to be aware of.
[27:04] SPEAKER_03: For sure.
[27:05] SPEAKER_03: I think that setting up support for that, whatever that looks like, is very important.
[27:11] SPEAKER_00: I think so too. And I think it would make a real difference between whether you're able to succeed or not. Because that can, that really impacts your, your own motivation, your own mental, well-being as well.
[27:26] SPEAKER_00: So I think it's something that I would certainly advise any new entrepreneur to think about that very early on.
[27:35] SPEAKER_03: So I want to ask a question based on that. When you were starting out, and you may have the same support now, you might not. It's either way.
[27:43] SPEAKER_03: But was there any place that you went for support and to find that connection point?
[27:50] SPEAKER_03: And if, if not, or if so, you know, what do you do now at this point, because you've been in business a number of years, you're well established, you're very successful.
[27:58] SPEAKER_03: So what does that look like now? Is it different? Is it the same?
[28:02] SPEAKER_00: Initially, I had the benefit of close relationship to somebody who had been my mentor at the bank.
[28:11] SPEAKER_00: And we just sort of continued picked up where we had left off. And he had been on his own and stayed on his own. He didn't grow it beyond that. He had stayed on his own, but he had done that.
[28:25] SPEAKER_00: And it also had the benefit of knowing me quite well. So he was a huge support to me initially.
[28:34] SPEAKER_00: Right.
[28:35] SPEAKER_00: When I got to the point where I really needed to grow beyond that, I needed more because he had not done that.
[28:44] SPEAKER_00: Yes.
[28:44] SPEAKER_00: And that's when I got a coach who I still work with. I still work with coach.
[28:49] SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
[28:50] SPEAKER_00: I can, you know, I run ideas past her. She runs ideas past me. I can vent. I can, you know, talk about problems that I'm having.
[29:03] SPEAKER_00: And it's all confidential. And it doesn't come back like a conversation with somebody on my team might be or just a colleague might be.
[29:13] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[29:15] SPEAKER_03: I think I thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it. I think it's, I think it's important for people to hear different ways of getting support.
[29:22] SPEAKER_03: Right. I think mentors are phenomenal.
[29:24] SPEAKER_03: I'm a coach. So I'm obviously biased. I think coaches are great. And I also, I own it.
[29:29] SPEAKER_03: And I also think there's lots of, you know, communities around particular topics or particular, you know, here in Toronto, there's a few that I can think of where it's really community around sort of being inspirational, making a difference in the world.
[29:42] SPEAKER_03: If that's where you find your support, more power to you. I think it's important that we are aware that there are different options.
[29:50] SPEAKER_03: But having an eye for support is really important.
[29:54] SPEAKER_00: I, I, I can't emphasize that enough. It's so important to, as I said, your own mental well being as much as your ability to really achieve what you want to achieve with your business.
[30:07] SPEAKER_03: Totally. It's one of my pet peeves is how often we talk about and glorify the self made billionaire millionaire man woman, whatever you the self made.
[30:16] SPEAKER_03: No one does this on their own.
[30:19] SPEAKER_00: That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I haven't thought of that. But you're absolutely right. Nobody does it by themselves.
[30:27] SPEAKER_00: And nor should we glorify the idea that you can do it by yourself.
[30:32] SPEAKER_03: Well, because that it demonizes asking for help. Exactly. That's never, that's never a great approach to life and to being an entrepreneur and building a business.
[30:43] SPEAKER_00: Not asking for help is how you end up without a business. Yeah, exactly. It's one of the ways you're going to completely crash and burn.
[30:52] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because you can't possibly do everything perfectly on your own. And why, why would you, why would you choose that anyway?
[31:03] SPEAKER_03: Yeah. Yeah. Why would you want to, why would you want to?
[31:08] SPEAKER_03: Sounds exhausting is what it sounds like. For sure.
[31:11] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[31:12] SPEAKER_03: So before we wrap this up, I like to ask this question because you may have noticed I like books. This is my love in life.
[31:22] SPEAKER_03: So I would love to ask if you have any books that you would recommend to the our listeners and viewers, whether they are entrepreneurial or not, any books that you think these are the books that have had an impact on me and I'd like to share it with the audience.
[31:39] SPEAKER_00: So I like books too.
[31:42] SPEAKER_00: I have to tell you though that although I do occasionally read business books and I read, you know, journals probably more than that.
[31:52] SPEAKER_00: When I'm going to sit down with the book, I like real escapist literature.
[31:56] SPEAKER_03: You were talking my language, Janet, just so you know, you were talking my language.
[32:00] SPEAKER_00: So, you know, right now I'm reading a Better Man by Louise Penny and it is as escapist as you get.
[32:10] SPEAKER_03: Perfect. I love that. I haven't even heard of that. So that's a book for me to look into because I think that I mean, this is also my bias.
[32:19] SPEAKER_03: I think that I think it's great to read business books. I read a lot of them just for the work that I do out of necessity.
[32:24] SPEAKER_03: And if I'm reading for my pleasure, it's not a business book. It's always something that allows me to escape.
[32:32] SPEAKER_03: And I think as business owners and as humans in the world, we need to own that.
[32:38] SPEAKER_03: I agree with you for sure.
[32:41] SPEAKER_03: Is there anything that we didn't get into or you would like to share with our audience before we end this episode?
[32:50] SPEAKER_00: Well, Selena, I could talk about myself for hours here, but I think we've covered all the really key parts of being an entrepreneur and and growing your entrepreneur business.
[33:06] SPEAKER_00: I think the only thing that I might add in it specific to the pandemic we're going through now.
[33:13] SPEAKER_00: Please, absolutely.
[33:15] SPEAKER_00: For people to realize that there is a first of all, I don't think there is a back to normal.
[33:23] SPEAKER_00: And there isn't a one size fits all.
[33:27] SPEAKER_00: So we've worked with our clients on remote working policies and deployments like how to get people working from home.
[33:37] SPEAKER_00: Some of them do it well. Some of them do not do it well.
[33:41] SPEAKER_00: And I've heard from some of our employers, when do you think we can bring them all back? Well, you may not want to bring them all back.
[33:48] SPEAKER_00: You may want to leave some of them at home. You may want to bring them back.
[33:53] SPEAKER_00: But the thing you really have to start paying attention is employing engagement.
[33:59] SPEAKER_00: Because when you can walk around the office and say, hi, and, you know, can I get you a coffee, that's an easy way to engage informally and socially with people.
[34:11] SPEAKER_00: But when they are working from home and you're working from wherever, you have to work harder at that.
[34:19] SPEAKER_00: You have to work harder at maintaining a connection.
[34:22] SPEAKER_00: And it has to be more than performance related.
[34:26] SPEAKER_00: Yes.
[34:27] SPEAKER_00: It has to be a virtual, how are you doing? Can I get you a coffee?
[34:33] SPEAKER_00: I heard this great idea and I wish I could remember the company that's doing it.
[34:39] SPEAKER_00: But they set up like a site, an intranet site.
[34:43] SPEAKER_00: And the CEO has encouraged employees to post things that they do or are involved in of a personal nature.
[34:54] SPEAKER_00: And somebody paints and they've been posting their paintings.
[34:59] SPEAKER_00: As somebody else sings as part of a choir and they've been posting how they've been able to do that virtually.
[35:06] SPEAKER_00: And it has just taken off the company.
[35:11] SPEAKER_00: They're a small company and they're loving it.
[35:15] SPEAKER_00: And it's getting a lot of traction.
[35:17] SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you need to work harder at connecting with your employees.
[35:22] SPEAKER_03: I think that is a superbly valuable tip, especially right now.
[35:27] SPEAKER_03: And I appreciate you adding that onto the end of this conversation.
[35:32] SPEAKER_03: Because I would be remiss to not have it would be remiss to me not to, you know, free not to have brought it up.
[35:38] SPEAKER_03: So thank you.
[35:39] SPEAKER_03: I very much appreciate all of your insights and you sharing your story and your experience with other growing businesses.
[35:48] SPEAKER_03: We will have a link to Janet's website in the show notes.
[35:53] SPEAKER_03: You can find more about her online through that link.
[35:57] SPEAKER_03: It was a pleasure.
[35:59] SPEAKER_03: It was really a pleasure speaking with you and I appreciate your time.
[36:03] SPEAKER_03: So my pleasure, Sillene.
[36:05] SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for the opportunity.