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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_02: It's Toronto's podcast on the Canada's podcast network.
[00:04] Speaker UNKNOWN: [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪
[00:19] SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, I'm Phil Bliss, a business visionary,
[00:22] SPEAKER_00: and welcome to Toronto's Podcasts.
[00:24] SPEAKER_00: Part of the Canada's podcast network,
[00:26] SPEAKER_00: your source of the great insights
[00:28] SPEAKER_00: from entrepreneurs across Canada.
[00:31] SPEAKER_00: So, Paul, welcome.
[00:33] SPEAKER_00: And for those that don't know,
[00:34] SPEAKER_00: Paul and I have known each other for a long time.
[00:38] SPEAKER_00: Why, say, like, that, Paul?
[00:39] Speaker UNKNOWN: Very nice.
[00:42] SPEAKER_00: Paul, for everyone else, you know,
[00:43] SPEAKER_00: tell us a little bit more about yourself
[00:46] SPEAKER_00: and what you do, you know, in that sort of,
[00:49] SPEAKER_00: you know, two or three minute kind of capsule.
[00:51] SPEAKER_01: Sure. Well, I guess the reason you think
[00:54] SPEAKER_01: I'm an entrepreneur is because I have owned
[00:56] SPEAKER_01: multiple businesses.
[00:58] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[00:59] SPEAKER_01: And I've always basically been in the technology
[01:03] SPEAKER_01: communication side of the business.
[01:07] SPEAKER_01: Right now, for the last 25 years,
[01:12] SPEAKER_01: I've been running Canada's number one
[01:16] SPEAKER_01: publishing media company for technology.
[01:20] SPEAKER_01: And approximately eight years ago,
[01:24] SPEAKER_01: we went through a digital transformation
[01:25] SPEAKER_01: and became a digital media company
[01:28] SPEAKER_01: from a more traditional publisher.
[01:31] SPEAKER_01: And then also launched into an advertising agency,
[01:34] SPEAKER_01: a digital advertising agency for the technology sector.
[01:38] SPEAKER_01: You know, of course, technology is everywhere.
[01:41] SPEAKER_01: So it's not just IT,
[01:43] SPEAKER_01: but it's anyone who is using technology
[01:46] SPEAKER_01: to enable the business.
[01:47] SPEAKER_00: So, the question I ask right at the beginning usually is,
[01:51] SPEAKER_00: do you think entrepreneurs are wired differently?
[01:54] SPEAKER_01: Yes, they are.
[01:56] SPEAKER_01: They're wired differently because most are,
[02:00] SPEAKER_01: many people are risk-averse,
[02:02] SPEAKER_01: who are working for inside corporations.
[02:06] SPEAKER_01: There's two terms.
[02:08] SPEAKER_01: There's entrepreneurs and they're info-prinners.
[02:10] SPEAKER_01: And there are a lot of people who are amazingly creative
[02:13] SPEAKER_01: working with corporations.
[02:15] SPEAKER_01: The reason we call them info-prinners is because
[02:17] SPEAKER_01: they have safety net around them.
[02:20] SPEAKER_02: Right.
[02:20] SPEAKER_01: And that safety net makes all the difference.
[02:23] SPEAKER_01: Versus an entrepreneur that, you know,
[02:25] SPEAKER_01: like a person who's an aqua bat but has no net.
[02:30] SPEAKER_01: That's kind of the difference.
[02:32] SPEAKER_01: And that's why they have to have a higher tolerance for risk
[02:37] SPEAKER_01: in order to put themselves out and attempt to make something of nothing.
[02:43] SPEAKER_00: So what made you decide to become an entrepreneur?
[02:47] SPEAKER_01: I think, basically, my father was an entrepreneur
[02:50] SPEAKER_01: and it was the way I was grown.
[02:52] SPEAKER_01: I was brought up.
[02:54] SPEAKER_01: So he never worked for a major corporation,
[02:56] SPEAKER_01: even when he was working for encyclopedia Britannica,
[02:59] SPEAKER_01: which took him around the world.
[03:01] SPEAKER_01: It was up to him and he didn't get paid unless he built
[03:04] SPEAKER_01: his own direct sales organization.
[03:07] SPEAKER_01: I think that probably was my leaning.
[03:11] SPEAKER_01: And I had, after graduating,
[03:14] SPEAKER_01: some experience with working with corporations.
[03:17] SPEAKER_01: And I didn't like being told how to do things,
[03:21] SPEAKER_01: especially when I felt I'm saying nothing.
[03:27] SPEAKER_01: That was me as a young, as a young person,
[03:31] SPEAKER_01: and which really led me into having my own business.
[03:35] SPEAKER_01: The first business I created, I was 24 years old.
[03:39] SPEAKER_01: And it was an animation studio.
[03:41] SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I straight, I went straight into
[03:45] SPEAKER_01: opening my own businesses.
[03:46] SPEAKER_01: Later on, I worked for large corporations,
[03:48] SPEAKER_01: but it was mainly under contract.
[03:51] SPEAKER_00: How did you get into your area of expertise,
[03:54] SPEAKER_00: publishing digital IT?
[03:57] SPEAKER_01: Well, first of all, my degree was in business and communications.
[04:01] SPEAKER_01: So my intent was always to be a communications specialist.
[04:06] SPEAKER_01: What happened was that I met one of your former partners early on.
[04:13] SPEAKER_01: And I had been approached after the animation studios,
[04:18] SPEAKER_01: where there was a lot of advertising agencies.
[04:21] SPEAKER_01: So one person had left the agency,
[04:24] SPEAKER_01: and it picked up the software package on Florida.
[04:27] SPEAKER_01: And it was a graphic art software package.
[04:30] SPEAKER_01: And he had come to me and said,
[04:32] SPEAKER_01: look, you're really, really creative.
[04:35] SPEAKER_01: I need you to help me launch a software package in Canada.
[04:38] SPEAKER_01: And I said, I know nothing about technology.
[04:40] SPEAKER_01: You said, but you know about marketing.
[04:41] SPEAKER_01: I said, I want to eat you know.
[04:43] SPEAKER_01: So, you know, work with me.
[04:45] SPEAKER_01: So I looked at it, I did research.
[04:48] SPEAKER_01: I found that McLean Hunter at the time had the largest,
[04:52] SPEAKER_01: or used to have the largest graphic arts magazine.
[04:56] SPEAKER_01: That was this thing at its height.
[04:58] SPEAKER_01: Now it was this thick.
[04:59] SPEAKER_01: So I went to the publisher.
[05:01] SPEAKER_01: And I said, look, I have an offer for you.
[05:04] SPEAKER_01: It's called desktop publishing.
[05:06] SPEAKER_01: I said it's brand new.
[05:08] SPEAKER_01: I said, nobody really knows about it.
[05:10] SPEAKER_01: I said, but your poor advertisers are getting into it,
[05:14] SPEAKER_01: like, aren't you graphic, blinded type, etc.
[05:17] SPEAKER_01: I said, I need somebody who's going to support me
[05:20] SPEAKER_01: from a media perspective in order for us to launch what I think
[05:24] SPEAKER_01: would work.
[05:25] SPEAKER_01: And that would be a trade show that are you interested?
[05:28] SPEAKER_01: So we worked out a deal.
[05:29] SPEAKER_01: And he was very interested because he knew that he could just keep going
[05:34] SPEAKER_01: to the Heidelbergs of the world and keep that magazine going.
[05:38] SPEAKER_01: So he gave me huge support.
[05:42] SPEAKER_01: And I launched the first desktop publishing event in Canada
[05:47] SPEAKER_01: at what was a triumph hotel at Keelin 401.
[05:51] SPEAKER_01: And what happened was there were so many people that came over
[05:53] SPEAKER_01: from the Ministry of Transportation.
[05:55] SPEAKER_01: They had to call the fire department.
[05:57] SPEAKER_00: Now you remember that.
[05:58] SPEAKER_00: I was there.
[05:59] SPEAKER_01: It was like, it was humongous, right?
[06:02] SPEAKER_01: It was a huge business.
[06:04] SPEAKER_01: And then I was approached by one of your ex-partners saying,
[06:09] SPEAKER_01: you know, there's this new thing coming out called Units.
[06:13] SPEAKER_01: And you should get involved.
[06:15] SPEAKER_01: And I was going to England.
[06:17] SPEAKER_01: And he introduced me to the CIO Northern Telecom,
[06:21] SPEAKER_01: who was the president of the uniform association in the UK.
[06:26] SPEAKER_01: I came out for lunch.
[06:27] SPEAKER_01: She was most expensive lunch I've ever had to this day
[06:30] SPEAKER_01: in my entire life.
[06:31] SPEAKER_01: And he introduced me to every important person
[06:36] SPEAKER_01: in that sector of Units operators.
[06:41] SPEAKER_01: And when I came back to Canada,
[06:43] SPEAKER_01: they had just formed Uniform Canada.
[06:45] SPEAKER_01: So I signed them up to a 10-year deal
[06:47] SPEAKER_01: and they launched into the trade show business.
[06:49] SPEAKER_01: That's kind of how it happened.
[06:51] SPEAKER_01: And the first six months I remember going
[06:53] SPEAKER_01: I'd be selling the show.
[06:56] SPEAKER_01: And I'd have to sit in front of these brilliant people
[06:58] SPEAKER_01: with all these hundreds of acronyms.
[07:01] SPEAKER_01: I had no idea what they were talking about.
[07:04] SPEAKER_01: But I learned to nod my hand and look at how it happened.
[07:08] SPEAKER_01: Finally, I got, I started to understand what it was.
[07:13] SPEAKER_00: What, what, what, what, what, what I called planned opportunity.
[07:19] SPEAKER_01: That's how I got into it.
[07:20] SPEAKER_01: So how did I get into publishing?
[07:23] SPEAKER_01: At some point I decided to try and sell the trade shows.
[07:27] SPEAKER_01: And I went into business with a new partner
[07:30] SPEAKER_01: who had just left a company called Secret Computers,
[07:34] SPEAKER_01: Mark Turner, originally was with some microsystems.
[07:37] SPEAKER_01: And we felt there was a huge market for cheaper information officers.
[07:41] SPEAKER_01: So we created a conference, a retreat called CIO Survival Camps.
[07:46] SPEAKER_01: And we would charge these CIOs to come out to Quebec.
[07:50] SPEAKER_01: We had beautiful in Montague-Bello and it was $4,000 per CIO.
[07:54] SPEAKER_01: We got sent to sponsor it with their partners.
[07:59] SPEAKER_01: And we did this first three years and then I got approached by I.T. World Canada,
[08:03] SPEAKER_01: which was the French and media at the time.
[08:06] SPEAKER_01: Because they wanted to form an executive division.
[08:09] SPEAKER_01: And they needed somebody to do what they were doing.
[08:12] SPEAKER_01: So they said, would you come on board for a one-year contract?
[08:15] SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of how I got to what is now I.T. World Canada.
[08:20] SPEAKER_00: Just moving away from a little bit, you know,
[08:23] SPEAKER_00: we're both in Toronto or Greater Toronto, if you like.
[08:26] SPEAKER_00: And you'd be in here pretty much relatively live.
[08:29] SPEAKER_00: Why Toronto, what's the benefit of doing business in Toronto?
[08:34] SPEAKER_01: Well, it's first of all, it's the largest city in Canada.
[08:37] SPEAKER_01: It's got more corporate offices.
[08:40] SPEAKER_01: It's where the technology headquarters are.
[08:43] SPEAKER_01: The majority of offices in Ottawa as an example are there specifically for the federal government.
[08:48] SPEAKER_01: And that's it. So that would be the public sector team that's in Ottawa.
[08:54] SPEAKER_01: And we did a lot of events in Ottawa too, right across the country.
[08:58] SPEAKER_01: But Toronto has the most opportunity for drumming up business.
[09:04] SPEAKER_00: Just sort of from your side, some of our best ideas come when we least expect them.
[09:11] SPEAKER_00: Is there any, you know, how do you disconnect? How do you reach out?
[09:14] SPEAKER_00: How do you get those ideas out?
[09:16] SPEAKER_00: You've come up with some great ideas.
[09:19] SPEAKER_00: I mean, as I said, it's not like we don't know.
[09:21] SPEAKER_01: It's something happened because of a circumstance.
[09:24] SPEAKER_01: There's two different types of ideas.
[09:26] SPEAKER_01: There's one that is you have a vision, have a purpose, and you're setting out to do that.
[09:34] SPEAKER_01: And then by setting out to do that, through the people you meet and the things you discover,
[09:41] SPEAKER_01: you basically formulate, okay, here's an opportunity.
[09:45] SPEAKER_01: Here's an idea that we can apply.
[09:47] SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's just circumstance. So I'll give you an example.
[09:52] SPEAKER_01: I was with IT role at that time, and I had created my first master series around networking.
[10:00] SPEAKER_01: And so my idea, because of type of person I am, I'm a driver, I said, you know what?
[10:06] SPEAKER_01: I'm going to call up the federal government.
[10:08] SPEAKER_01: I'm going to ask them to send me an auditor.
[10:09] SPEAKER_01: Because I think this material is so important.
[10:13] SPEAKER_01: They should be auditing it for their people.
[10:15] SPEAKER_01: So I did. And sure enough, they did send down an auditor from Treasury Board.
[10:20] SPEAKER_01: And the audience at the time, almost half of the people coming in were CIOs from municipalities.
[10:28] SPEAKER_01: So they heard this gentleman was down from Treasury Board.
[10:32] SPEAKER_01: And they have costed for them a cost at him in the hall.
[10:34] SPEAKER_01: Because the federal government had been at that point sitting down with the promise to talk about
[10:40] SPEAKER_01: how they could get the government to move forward.
[10:43] SPEAKER_01: And they costed him because they weren't at the table.
[10:47] SPEAKER_01: So they literally had a pinch of the wall.
[10:50] SPEAKER_01: And I'm walking through to see where the coffee is.
[10:53] SPEAKER_01: I see my guest, a pinch of the wall by these four CIOs.
[10:56] SPEAKER_01: And I went in because it wasn't all education.
[10:59] SPEAKER_01: I'm like, whoa, you know, hold on guys.
[11:01] SPEAKER_01: So I sent them down asking what the problem was.
[11:05] SPEAKER_01: And they said, well, we're not at the table.
[11:07] SPEAKER_01: They're doing all this and all those services they want to talk about.
[11:10] SPEAKER_01: We're the ones who deliver it.
[11:12] SPEAKER_01: So I looked at the gentleman from Treasury Board and said, well, is there any way that we could have the federal governments
[11:17] SPEAKER_01: and down with municipalities I could be the person that arranges that, the so-dater.
[11:23] SPEAKER_01: And they went, well, we couldn't do that without the problems and spun board.
[11:26] SPEAKER_01: So one of the CIOs was from the city of Toronto.
[11:29] SPEAKER_01: And he turned around and said, well, I have to know the CIO for the problems of Ontario, if I want, I will get us a bunch.
[11:36] SPEAKER_01: I said, great.
[11:37] SPEAKER_01: So the gentleman from Treasury Board said, well, if you can get Ontario and Quebec on board,
[11:41] SPEAKER_01: he says, then I can do this forward.
[11:44] SPEAKER_01: So I met with the CIO and it was a great meeting.
[11:47] SPEAKER_01: And he basically looked at me as if I was dorthly in the Wizard of Oz.
[11:51] SPEAKER_01: And he said, I'll tell you what, you bring me the CIO and Quebec, the CIO,
[11:55] SPEAKER_01: the CIO Alberta, and you've got Ontario.
[11:59] SPEAKER_01: So what did I do? I called out the CIO Quebec.
[12:02] SPEAKER_01: And I said, by the way, we're doing this with the federal government and I have the CIO Ontario.
[12:06] SPEAKER_01: You should be there.
[12:08] SPEAKER_01: And of course, he went on, then BC went on, then Alberta went on, then it's over, went on, went across the country.
[12:14] SPEAKER_01: And that's how we launched the Lat Parlin series, which did tremendous stuff for our country.
[12:20] SPEAKER_01: And it really did move the government forward.
[12:24] SPEAKER_00: What are you most excited about in the business today?
[12:28] SPEAKER_00: And you've lived through such change in the way you...
[12:33] SPEAKER_01: What I think that what I'm very excited about is that we are moving from the information age
[12:38] SPEAKER_01: where you and I grew up in, you know, from a business perspective, to the experience age.
[12:44] SPEAKER_01: And that is completely different than models change.
[12:49] SPEAKER_01: Everyone's going to be disrupted.
[12:52] SPEAKER_01: I mean, we were disrupted early because we're a publisher.
[12:55] SPEAKER_01: Every business big and small is about to go through what I went through for the last eight years.
[13:01] SPEAKER_01: And it's very exciting because you got so many forces coming together at the same time, you know,
[13:08] SPEAKER_01: from AI, artificial intelligence to the Internet of Things, you know, 5G to fuel all of this growth.
[13:16] SPEAKER_01: And really allow us to get to a new level of how society is going to work.
[13:23] SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we're working in this microcosm called a business.
[13:26] SPEAKER_01: But it's all being impacted, societally, by all these different forces.
[13:31] SPEAKER_01: And we're helping to shape and influence those things.
[13:34] SPEAKER_01: And that's really what I'm excited about at this point in my career.
[13:38] SPEAKER_00: So where's publishing going to be in the next five years?
[13:44] SPEAKER_01: I think that it's not going to be how we viewed publishing in the past.
[13:51] SPEAKER_01: You know, it really is publishing is about bringing that information to life.
[13:57] SPEAKER_01: You know, it's really about how just a reader or the person that's consuming the information, how do they experience it?
[14:06] SPEAKER_00: I think it's about the experiences, right?
[14:08] SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, people can get the data.
[14:10] SPEAKER_00: It's what's around it.
[14:14] SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
[14:15] SPEAKER_01: And that I think is the next level.
[14:18] SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, is there anything that's now that you get really annoyed at?
[14:21] SPEAKER_00: That's what, you know, our term is a fact just now.
[14:25] SPEAKER_00: You think people should just leave the heck alone?
[14:28] SPEAKER_01: I think that, you know, there are financial nuances that really bother me.
[14:34] SPEAKER_01: And especially as a woman, you know, as a woman entrepreneur.
[14:38] SPEAKER_01: I have far less opportunity than my counterparts who are males.
[14:45] SPEAKER_01: Even though I hold risk company and even though I've had the very lucky to be able to finance it,
[14:53] SPEAKER_01: but that's because it has a long longevity.
[14:56] Speaker UNKNOWN:
[14:56] SPEAKER_01: Been around long enough for the banks are feel secure and the receivables are high enough to do that.
[15:02] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[15:02] SPEAKER_01: I was starting out.
[15:04] SPEAKER_01: It would be a whole different situation.
[15:07] SPEAKER_01: So it annoys me that we haven't made much progress, you know, on the diversity inclusion agenda for business,
[15:15] SPEAKER_01: especially female entrepreneurs.
[15:17] SPEAKER_01: Like when you look at equity funding, they receive less than 2%.
[15:21] SPEAKER_01: No, that's just not right.
[15:23] SPEAKER_01: When 50% of the ideas are coming from women and they're just overlooked because of their gender, that's wrong.
[15:32] SPEAKER_00: What are the top 3 things on your bucket list?
[15:35] SPEAKER_01: Well, one of the things is to be able to pass the reins to someone else so I can do more traveling.
[15:44] SPEAKER_01: Because I look at your lifestyle and really jealous.
[15:49] SPEAKER_00: Don't tell everybody that.
[15:52] SPEAKER_01: I'm still, you know, very operational.
[15:55] SPEAKER_01: I think that's the big thing because once I can hand over the reins and really just be a CEO rather than an operational president,
[16:05] SPEAKER_01: I can do all the things that I want to do at this age.
[16:10] SPEAKER_00: You know, you've faced a few challenges.
[16:12] SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, I've known and talked about someone.
[16:16] SPEAKER_00: What's the greatest challenge you've faced in the business today?
[16:21] SPEAKER_01: Well, the greatest challenge that we faced was that our product was no longer viewed as being valuable.
[16:29] SPEAKER_01: And that was the greatest challenge I faced.
[16:32] SPEAKER_01: We had a whole business around printed magazine.
[16:37] SPEAKER_01: And that was our disruption.
[16:39] SPEAKER_01: The question was that we had to then recognize, okay, what had changed?
[16:45] SPEAKER_01: Because there was magazines still being printed that were a value in different parts of the world.
[16:51] SPEAKER_01: Do you ask because of its volume, although the magazine wasn't where it was financially, like from a revenue driven point of view, it still was sought after.
[17:04] SPEAKER_01: Because Canada is so small and our market is so small, we really have to understand that the people we sell to are mainly sales driven versus brand driven.
[17:18] SPEAKER_01: So when your sales driven is all about return on investment, improving it.
[17:22] SPEAKER_01: So it's hard to prove what the printed magazine is doing from a metric driven point of view versus an additional point of view.
[17:31] SPEAKER_01: So that was the first thing we had to change.
[17:33] SPEAKER_01: And then we also had to understand that we, our model was we pushed out of information.
[17:40] SPEAKER_01: That was a model for many decades.
[17:43] SPEAKER_01: And now it was said that was not the model anymore.
[17:47] SPEAKER_01: So what we had to do was examine what is valuable, like what is a valuable asset.
[17:53] SPEAKER_01: And we finally realized that the most valuable asset is a customer.
[17:59] SPEAKER_01: So we had to rethink and redo everything so that the emphasis was on the customer and not on what we thought our project was.
[18:10] SPEAKER_00: What?
[18:12] SPEAKER_00: If you knew now what you knew then, what would you recommend to people starting up in business?
[18:20] SPEAKER_00: Because you've got a great record.
[18:22] SPEAKER_00: Can you pass on two or three gems?
[18:25] SPEAKER_01: I would say that the first thing you have to do is really understand the true value of your organization.
[18:32] SPEAKER_01: And in order to do that, you need to pose three questions.
[18:36] SPEAKER_01: Number one, what are you passionate about?
[18:39] SPEAKER_01: Number two, what can you beat the world at?
[18:41] SPEAKER_01: And number three, what are the metrics that are going to drive your economic engine?
[18:45] SPEAKER_01: So if you can really figure out those three questions, then you're off to a great start.
[18:54] SPEAKER_00: What's the best piece of advice that you've ever received?
[18:58] SPEAKER_01: The best piece of advice that I ever received.
[19:02] SPEAKER_01: That's a hard question because nobody ever said just go what your heart is on or just follow what you're passionate about.
[19:11] SPEAKER_01: Except when I went to university, that was a bit different because you're taking what you're passionate about.
[19:18] SPEAKER_00: So I was thinking about one of my early mentors, I used to be a terribly sloppy worker.
[19:26] SPEAKER_00: And then I said, you know, tidy desk, tidy mind.
[19:29] SPEAKER_00: And then he qualified it by an instant tidy.
[19:32] SPEAKER_00: I'm going to kick you out.
[19:34] SPEAKER_00: But it really taught me organization and that kind of thing.
[19:39] SPEAKER_01: So then very simply the best advice I ever got was do it now.
[19:45] SPEAKER_01: So don't procrastinate because the easiest thing to do is procrastinate on the stuff you don't like to do.
[19:52] SPEAKER_00: So we're going to go to some rapid-fire questions.
[19:54] SPEAKER_00: Okay, so don't think too much about them.
[19:57] SPEAKER_00: There's no fault for it.
[19:59] SPEAKER_00: If you weren't doing what you were doing now, what would you be doing instead?
[20:04] SPEAKER_02: I would be teaching.
[20:05] SPEAKER_00: I could see that.
[20:07] SPEAKER_00: What books, what book are you currently reading?
[20:10] SPEAKER_00: And you know, there's a couple of books that you would recommend that the really kind of had an impact on you.
[20:17] SPEAKER_01: Well, let me show you something.
[20:19] SPEAKER_00: Okay.
[20:21] SPEAKER_01: This is what we just finished writing.
[20:23] SPEAKER_00: Well, I know that. Yes, I saw that.
[20:25] SPEAKER_01: No, you know, I would highly recommend highly clear.
[20:33] SPEAKER_00: And I mean, in terms of reading, anything that really kind of influenced the way you operate.
[20:41] SPEAKER_01: I think that Tom Collins has really influenced the way I operate.
[20:48] SPEAKER_01: Michael Copeland has been amazing.
[20:51] SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the pieces from those books actually became part of our strategy.
[20:56] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[20:57] SPEAKER_01: We know within our transformation.
[20:59] SPEAKER_01: But there's a lot of great authors.
[21:02] SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, you know, in this last month, I haven't read because I've been heads down on P&L and putting the buttons.
[21:10] SPEAKER_00: I know that.
[21:11] SPEAKER_00: I know that feeling.
[21:13] SPEAKER_01: But I would say that I'd mainly read business books.
[21:17] SPEAKER_01: I really haven't read any fiction in a few years.
[21:20] SPEAKER_01: I haven't had time.
[21:22] SPEAKER_00: Are you a morning or a night person?
[21:24] SPEAKER_01: I'm definitely a morning person.
[21:27] SPEAKER_01: I'm a morning person.
[21:28] SPEAKER_01: When I was young, I used to be a night person.
[21:31] SPEAKER_00: When you're kicking the gear in the morning?
[21:33] SPEAKER_01: Around 530.
[21:35] SPEAKER_00: You had to pick one word to describe yourself.
[21:38] SPEAKER_00: Maybe two.
[21:39] SPEAKER_00: Okay.
[21:40] SPEAKER_00: What would it be and why?
[21:42] SPEAKER_01: The driver.
[21:44] SPEAKER_00: Anything keeping you up at night?
[21:45] SPEAKER_01: Everything keeps me up at night.
[21:47] SPEAKER_01: I thought it was because I thought too much.
[21:51] SPEAKER_01: Suddenly, I realized I know part of it is my age to be picking up at night.
[21:56] SPEAKER_01: But I think that you get these ideas and they come at a strange time.
[22:02] SPEAKER_01: I don't know about you, but I always have something by my bedside.
[22:06] SPEAKER_01: Some thought comes in and I'm up.
[22:08] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[22:09] SPEAKER_01: I don't use the mobile.
[22:11] SPEAKER_01: You don't want to wake up my husband.
[22:13] SPEAKER_01: That probably comes on.
[22:15] SPEAKER_01: Something goes wrong.
[22:17] SPEAKER_01: But what keeps you up at night?
[22:19] SPEAKER_01: It just depends on what's going on in the business.
[22:21] SPEAKER_01: If there's operational issues, it's keeping me up at night.
[22:24] SPEAKER_01: If there's something we're trying to figure out strategically, it's keeping me up at night.
[22:28] SPEAKER_01: But I try to shut it down.
[22:31] SPEAKER_00: What's your most favorite place in the world?
[22:35] SPEAKER_01: Believe it or not, one of my most favorite places in the world is England.
[22:42] SPEAKER_01: I love the UK.
[22:45] SPEAKER_01: I've got great memories there.
[22:47] SPEAKER_01: I'm going back there next week.
[22:50] SPEAKER_01: It's not just England.
[22:52] SPEAKER_01: I mean, Scotland's gorgeous.
[22:53] SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
[22:56] SPEAKER_01: It's just, I just love being in a country where you can have millions of people around you.
[23:04] SPEAKER_01: At the same time, you could have the beautiful hills of Wales and the fantastic scenery.
[23:10] SPEAKER_01: It's very important to me to get to the ocean.
[23:15] SPEAKER_00: You haven't listened to this question.
[23:17] SPEAKER_00: I ask everyone.
[23:18] SPEAKER_00: There's a small tropical island in the middle of the ocean with only one phone booths.
[23:23] SPEAKER_00: Remember a phone booth?
[23:24] SPEAKER_00: No internet.
[23:26] SPEAKER_00: We drop you off there with no technology at all.
[23:29] SPEAKER_00: At any time, you can pick up the phone in the phone booths and call the boat to come back and pick you up.
[23:34] SPEAKER_00: How long would you last before making that call?
[23:37] SPEAKER_01: I would say probably about two hours.
[23:44] SPEAKER_00: I know that feeling.
[23:48] SPEAKER_00: That's about it for a moment.
[23:50] SPEAKER_00: It's been great seeing you.
[23:52] SPEAKER_00: As it always is.
[23:54] SPEAKER_00: And thank you for coming on the Canada's podcast.
[23:57] SPEAKER_00: I think you're experienced.
[24:00] SPEAKER_00: Where can I list this, find you online in case they might want to follow up?
[24:04] SPEAKER_01: LinkedIn is strictly at Cohn, Ann.
[24:08] SPEAKER_01: People have problems with my name.
[24:10] SPEAKER_01: It's like a baby deer at FWN, last day in Ann.
[24:15] SPEAKER_01: I know lots of people just don't know how to pronounce that.
[24:19] SPEAKER_01: But also, they can go to our websites, any one of our websites, whether it's ITWOCanada.com or IJGISIS.ca and find us there.
[24:28] SPEAKER_00: Thanks again.
[24:29] SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed the interview.
[24:31] SPEAKER_01: Thank you. It was great, Phil.
[24:35] SPEAKER_00: Thanks everyone for taking the time today to listen to Toronto's podcast on the Canada's podcast network.
[24:41] SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed the podcast today.
[24:43] SPEAKER_00: Make sure you sign up for a news service or write a review for us on iTunes.
[24:48] SPEAKER_00: You can connect with us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn or at CanadaSpodcast.com
[24:54] SPEAKER_00: where you can listen, discover and engage.
[24:57] SPEAKER_00: You can also check out what other entrepreneurs are doing across the country.
[25:00] SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next time.
