Advice from the co-founder of a leading global influencer talent management agency

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[00:00] SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:06] SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, I'm Phil Bliss, Founder and CEO of Canada's podcast,
[00:10] SPEAKER_01: coming to you today from Toronto.
[00:13] SPEAKER_01: Today we're going to meet Jess, 100th and Emily Ward,
[00:16] SPEAKER_01: the co-founders of the multi-faceted talent agency Shine Talent Group.
[00:21] SPEAKER_01: After launching Shine PR in January 2015,
[00:25] SPEAKER_01: the team quickly saw the opportunity to fill a void
[00:28] SPEAKER_01: in what's now called the Influence Alliancecape.
[00:33] SPEAKER_01: Shine Talent Group was born to build, was born, built to serve as a resort for brands
[00:39] SPEAKER_01: and marketing PR agencies with one-on-one talent management
[00:44] SPEAKER_01: and campaign strategy consulting.
[00:47] SPEAKER_01: And now, our offices in Los Angeles, Toronto and London.
[00:52] SPEAKER_01: So, let's talk to them about their growth and their interesting entrepreneurial journeys.
[01:03] SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, I'm Phil Bliss, Founder and CEO of Canada's podcast,
[01:07] SPEAKER_01: coming to you from Toronto.
[01:10] SPEAKER_01: Today we're going to meet Emily Ward,
[01:12] SPEAKER_01: the co-founders of the multi-faceted talent management agency Shine Talent Group.
[01:18] SPEAKER_01: After lots of shine in 2015,
[01:21] SPEAKER_01: they saw an opportunity to fill a void in what's now called the Influence Alliancecape.
[01:26] SPEAKER_01: So, in 2015 Shine Talent Group was born and served as a resource for brands
[01:33] SPEAKER_01: and marketing and PR agency with one-on-one talent management
[01:37] SPEAKER_01: and campaign strategy consulting.
[01:40] SPEAKER_01: They've been very successful and the team has now expanded to represent
[01:45] SPEAKER_01: social talent globally with offices in LA, Toronto and London.
[01:50] SPEAKER_01: So, Emily, welcome to Canada's podcast, nice to meet you.
[01:53] SPEAKER_01: And as I normally do, you know, we're all about your journey.
[02:00] SPEAKER_01: So, why don't you stop by telling us a little bit about yourself, what you do,
[02:06] SPEAKER_01: and why you're sitting here on Zoom in front of me, so to speak.
[02:11] SPEAKER_01: Okay.
[02:12] SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you very much for having me.
[02:15] SPEAKER_00: So, my name is Emily Ward,
[02:17] SPEAKER_00: and I am the co-founder of Shine Talent Group.
[02:23] SPEAKER_00: Also, the co-founder of our newly formed SaaS program called the Thread.
[02:29] SPEAKER_00: And here to talk to you a little bit about my entrepreneurial journey
[02:34] SPEAKER_00: because it's been a bit of a wild one since I started.
[02:40] SPEAKER_01: Okay. So, I mean, but, you know, how did you get here?
[02:43] SPEAKER_01: You know, what, what, what, what was your journey?
[02:46] SPEAKER_01: Where were you before that kind of thing?
[02:49] SPEAKER_00: We speak to you a lot of students through Shine.
[02:54] SPEAKER_00: And I can certainly appreciate how much pressure, you know, students are under to make the perfect choices as it feels today.
[03:04] SPEAKER_00: Even my son, who's 13 right now, and he's looking into high schools.
[03:09] SPEAKER_00: They're already starting to start conversations about kids, you know, career journeys
[03:14] SPEAKER_00: and ensuring that they're selecting the right high school to have the right courses,
[03:18] SPEAKER_00: to do the right university course, to have the career, you know, that you want.
[03:23] SPEAKER_00: But more often or not in my, my journey as well, I've been that people,
[03:29] SPEAKER_00: they don't normally land in the thing that they follow career pathways, like in school.
[03:36] SPEAKER_00: But what they end up following or falling into career wise or things that just are really best suited for them and make them and make them happy.
[03:45] SPEAKER_00: So I, I originally went to school to do a bachelor of fine arts at York University in dance because honestly, it just made me really happy when I was younger.
[03:58] SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't imagine when I was like 17 18 doing anything, but going to school to be a dancer.
[04:07] SPEAKER_00: And then I got into the program, which was an amazing program.
[04:12] SPEAKER_00: But soon learned a little bit more about the world and how difficult it might be to be a professional dancer.
[04:19] SPEAKER_00: And decided that I was going to do what I could to learn everything about the industry around dance.
[04:27] SPEAKER_00: So I started volunteering and taking part time jobs and internships, literally like anything and anywhere that I could in like the entertainment industry.
[04:38] SPEAKER_00: I worked at the National Ballet. I worked for the Danny Grossman dance company.
[04:44] SPEAKER_00: And then I did stumble upon an internship with a PR company called applause communications. And they had been the PR agency a record for a lot of like arts and entertainment in Toronto.
[04:58] SPEAKER_00: And I just really fell in love with PR. I loved the balance of working like with the media pitching stories kind of raising up these different like events and performances into the spotlight.
[05:12] SPEAKER_00: And then through that I ended up doing my postcard at Humber College. They had a arts administration and cultural management postcard, which was a great like eight month program.
[05:27] SPEAKER_00: I had a ton of internships with it as well. And although I didn't end up in the not for profit arts, it was like a really wonderful crash course just into some general, you know, business occupant that I didn't get you know through my BFA.
[05:44] SPEAKER_00: So I learned about marketing and sponsorship and a little bit of accounting and a little bit of law.
[05:51] SPEAKER_00: And I did my three internships that landed me into a for profit position.
[05:57] SPEAKER_00: And then another great little advertising agency called the ad lib group.
[06:04] SPEAKER_00: So I was hired there when I was still in school to start up a PR department, which now when I look back is like absolutely wild because I was 22 and I didn't go to school for PR.
[06:19] SPEAKER_00: And then I got to the PR program at Humber when I had applied for it.
[06:25] SPEAKER_00: But I was offered this position and given like a really great chance through this husband and wife who owned this agency.
[06:33] SPEAKER_00: And I remember them saying to me that they, you know, they saw something in me and they said that they, they really didn't care specifically, you know what I was going to do with this PR department.
[06:45] SPEAKER_00: But you know, I had to figure out a way to generate income.
[06:49] SPEAKER_00: So under kind of like this, the safety of working with an agency and having with the resources, I was kind of given this very like entrepreneurial head start.
[07:03] SPEAKER_00: And I was kind of set off to figure out how to generate like income and how to create service using kind of like the tools and the clients like that were around me.
[07:16] SPEAKER_00: So a very like a very interesting like start. I feel like not a lot of people today, like get that kind of opportunity to kind of flex their entrepreneurial muscles so so young.
[07:32] SPEAKER_00: So there I worked on like a number of different kinds of accounts.
[07:37] SPEAKER_00: But one thing I fell into like truly by a bit of a passion project.
[07:42] SPEAKER_00: And as I started to represent motivational speakers.
[07:46] SPEAKER_00: One of them was was Paul Rosen who was a paralympian.
[07:51] SPEAKER_00: And he was just like amazing. And both the owner of the agency and I just we had a soft spot for him and just really wanted to help out his career.
[08:00] SPEAKER_00: And I started to get my feet wet kind of in, you know, the representation space representing Paul and then a few other people.
[08:11] SPEAKER_00: And then I went.
[08:13] SPEAKER_00: And after about working there for about four years decided I want to work for a large PR agency.
[08:19] SPEAKER_00: Which I did I worked at ddb for another four years under Marching Lovey and got some incredible agency experienced their large global global clients.
[08:32] SPEAKER_00: And just like learn to talk about working with integrated marketing as well and seeing like how all the different pieces you know fall together.
[08:42] SPEAKER_00: But from there I had my children and I couldn't really imagine a life where I was kind of going back to large agency life.
[08:52] SPEAKER_00: Anybody who has worked for large agencies can appreciate that like you don't have much control some some weeks like over schedule perhaps today.
[09:01] SPEAKER_00: It's a little different back then.
[09:03] SPEAKER_00: It was it was still pretty pretty busy.
[09:06] SPEAKER_00: And so I decided to take a stab at relancing.
[09:12] SPEAKER_00: And I really loved it because it I was able to kind of rely on like this network that I had built through people I worked at worked with at dbb and also at my previous agency.
[09:25] SPEAKER_00: And you know a work on some great projects on more of a contract basis.
[09:32] SPEAKER_00: But if you've ever relanced before you also know that's pretty pretty nervy to say no to any contract because you don't really know when the next contract is going to be coming up.
[09:44] SPEAKER_00: So I was taking on contracts and taking on contracts and taking on contracts.
[09:48] SPEAKER_00: I had two young children at home.
[09:49] SPEAKER_00: And I just had a little bit too much on my plate to figure it out by myself I had a at that time my son was two and a half my daughter was like a newborn.
[10:00] SPEAKER_00: And I really needed to a little bit more support in order to the service all these contracts well.
[10:06] SPEAKER_00: So I started asking around to see if there is like you know another another freelancer out there who I thought only we could kind of like work together and share some workload back and forth and I kind of missed you know working with them.
[10:18] SPEAKER_00: And I was like a team teammate and that's a that's when I met my business partner Jess so that was in 2014.
[10:26] SPEAKER_00: I am very lucky that she was here in Canada she had moved from Australia for a boy and then she moved to Toronto and was trying to break into the PR industry.
[10:40] SPEAKER_00: She had a really wonderful PR career behind her also working for herself and working for Channel 10 Channel 9 and Channel 10 in Melbourne so to major television networks doing PR.
[10:57] SPEAKER_00: But when she came to Canada she found it really difficult to break in because a lot of the PR agencies were saying you know your skill set is good but you have no network and so much about PR is network.
[11:08] SPEAKER_00: So I met up with her and through a mutual friend who put us in contact and we honestly started working together like that day which I think was you know May 2014 and we literally have just like never stopped like from from that day that day forward.
[11:29] SPEAKER_00: We had really great synergy together and I had never I had never met somebody who I who I worked you know so effortlessly with and you know as much as we challenge each other I feel like there is such great synergies between us so the rest is history from there.
[11:49] SPEAKER_01: So you know the benefit of people listening tell us a little bit about shine but focus more on less about the company and more on the shifting PR you know to what's termed influence on marketing.
[12:08] SPEAKER_01: So because I think people have heard the term but I'm not sure that they really understand it so I mean you know we've got entrepreneurs listening who you know have businesses to promote so tell us what what's what's some big of our influence on marketing.
[12:27] SPEAKER_00: Well I can speak about it and also like back in 2015 when we when we really started this whole category and so just and I as I shared we met we started freelancing together started booking some larger meetings together and said well you know we don't want to go into these meetings is too freelancers we wanted to go in as an agency so like literally on a whim we decided to start shine PR.
[12:54] SPEAKER_00: And then kind of ran into the issue of being like quite competitive in you know the boutique PR space it was easier to get contracts actually as as a freelancer where you could work with these PR agencies harder to be up against them as a boutique PR firm.
[13:14] SPEAKER_00: So we were looking for a way at that time to kind of niche ourselves out and just had seen an agency in Australia who had started to represent social talent and at that time in Canada they're really there was like one or two had started to like dabble in it but there really wasn't anybody who was like holy focusing on it.
[13:35] SPEAKER_00: And also at that time there was just oh my gosh like an enormous amount of cuts in the in the media I mean many magazines were discontinued.
[13:48] SPEAKER_00: You know on the PR media relations side I feel like when we would pitch which we thought were strong stories that had good visuals good hooks all the time we were being like refocused into like avatorial sections paid media sections because there just wasn't the airtime or like the print space anymore that there used to be for like free earned editorial.
[14:11] SPEAKER_00: So we were experiencing that issue on the PR side but like so are the other PR agencies so when we started to dabble in this influencer space and representing social talent who are people who have like really great Instagram followings YouTube followings today tick tock followings the PR agencies were also struggling at that time to figure out like how they could keep up with the earned media or just awareness.
[14:40] SPEAKER_00: campaigns or impressions that they needed to fulfill their metrics.
[14:46] SPEAKER_00: So us you know coming out with shine influencers and trying to be that in between between the PR agencies and then also the talent and find ways to referee to work together towards these like common goals was incredibly needed.
[15:02] SPEAKER_00: So instead of being these PR agencies competitors we started to be an asset to them and helping them you know to fill their their campaign goals.
[15:14] SPEAKER_01: What's been the greatest challenge you faced today. I mean you're now in you know in LA and Toronto and London. So you you're built a decent team you know what.
[15:30] SPEAKER_01: What's the biggest challenge if I do overcome to do that.
[15:36] SPEAKER_00: We would have been around for like nine years and every year every year is different in one way or another.
[15:47] SPEAKER_00: I the keeping up like with growth is amazing like and we've had some years of like tremendous growth.
[15:55] SPEAKER_00: But keeping up with growth I feel like can be a challenge. I feel like we've gone through like a lot of kind of growing pains.
[16:03] SPEAKER_00: You know that company is talk about and it feels like sometimes when you just kind of get like your systems and platforms and everything to a certain point to manage it changes like again. So I think you know one of one of the ongoing challenges is just you know not holding on to anything like too tightly to kind of you know be like in flow of how the business wants to develop and where it needs to go to.
[16:25] SPEAKER_00: I think team culture would be something that I would say much the challenge but as like it's a focus that we know as the company has involved.
[16:38] SPEAKER_00: And as we've gone from having you know one team to two to three to be in office to being like remote three different time zones now.
[16:47] SPEAKER_00: And maintaining like that feeling of of team and team culture is incredibly like important to us like like there's you know without having that without having kind of like that same you know feeling of when just and I like first started and we're working with our original team.
[17:05] SPEAKER_00: And we want to be able to like maintain like that.
[17:12] SPEAKER_00: We want to be able to be able to maintain like that like spirit of the company that started when it was only like a few of us when we're now you know 65 people and growing.
[17:23] SPEAKER_01: So what is the biggest challenge in the future then if you've grown from like two to 60 plus in you know what you say like the library or whatever what's the what's what's the big challenge now to get to you know 600 people.
[17:41] SPEAKER_00: I think you know we hired a COO just a few months ago which is an incredible hire for our team because I think that and you know your listeners who ensure many of them are entrepreneurs as well can appreciate that there is a certain personality that it takes to start something and to launch it to get it off the ground.
[18:08] SPEAKER_00: And there's a different personality that is like required in terms of like managing and maintaining like that growth and I can see in terms of like future future like challenge or opportunity it's just that like learning how to take.
[18:28] SPEAKER_00: The like spirit of like what we have built and the things that we love like so dearly like about the company and how to model that for sustainable growth beyond 65 people how to make that you know 150 person company how to make that you know even larger how to expand you know to new countries and still keep the spirit of the company the same.
[18:53] SPEAKER_01: So in the time you've been running it you've bumped it you've hit some unexpected.
[19:01] SPEAKER_01: Curls challenges right you on a colon.
[19:04] SPEAKER_01: Have you found a way to deal with them successfully that you can let people know I mean is there's a there's that kind of wall thing is has become a process that's enabled you because I'm sure you've had to go around it climb over it a few times on the way to where you are now.
[19:22] SPEAKER_01: This is if you found a process that works.
[19:26] SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that I am very lucky to have a business partner and equal business partner.
[19:36] SPEAKER_00: Just and I have met many business partners like along the way who have different structures there are like relationship of their business foundation and I think because just and I came into the company as you know 50 50 partners and both like really really wanting this like six to succeed and having like equal drive like towards it.
[20:01] SPEAKER_00: I think it has allowed us always to lean on each other in those those difficult moments and I would also say that we're at other companies having incredibly like defined roles when it comes to business partners just and I never have there certain things that you know she excels at or I excel at the be kind of like lean more towards her towards myself.
[20:25] SPEAKER_00: But there's probably like every task that I do or that just does we can we can either either of us can take over.
[20:34] SPEAKER_00: So I think that there is just like high high mutual respect there and also like a lot of like support in terms of when things like our challenging it doesn't all fall on to like one person's decision or perspective like there's there's a lot of
[20:51] SPEAKER_00: support and balance when figuring them out so I would say you know in terms of like our personal experience having that strong business partnership and that foundation relying like on that first and foremost has allowed us to you know accomplish like what we have like it said nine years three markets and growing and which is a no small feat.
[21:12] SPEAKER_00: And then other other tips that I would say in terms of like strategies just invested out like a lot of our time in the very early years into understanding what what our vision like for the company was so we were to them I a business consultancy called like think eight institute and they they did a lot of work.
[21:42] SPEAKER_00: On just you know visioning like articulation in terms of you know the tone of our business you know the content and the structure like how we wanted to how we how we wanted to develop this like overall which actually didn't rely so much on the specific service but more on like the overall like business feel.
[22:07] SPEAKER_00: And I think because of that we've always kind of like leaned into like the changing of the industry or what has been presented to us and not not held on to like a specific ideal like for that one year but more kind of going towards like the greater vision of the company.
[22:31] SPEAKER_01: So you know what's the best piece of advice you've received.
[22:38] SPEAKER_01: When mentorship whatever the the use.
[22:43] SPEAKER_01: On a regular basis.
[22:46] SPEAKER_00: And we've received some great advice over the years the one one that stands out today that I feel like I've.
[22:54] SPEAKER_00: repeated to other other business owners is to look to grow your business as evenly as possible in terms of your client load so you know there's a lot of agencies out there who have one anchor client and that anchor client.
[23:13] SPEAKER_00: And you know funds the majority of like their overhead and they're they're stopping and then they may be having you know a few others that are sprinkled in there.
[23:22] SPEAKER_00: But if you lose that one anchor client.
[23:25] SPEAKER_00: Patience he folds and then also if that one anchor client if there's an imbalance in terms of like the relationship it's really hard to correct that.
[23:33] SPEAKER_00: So we've thought about that like quite a bit and very much try to grow our company at the pace of what the company wants as well.
[23:42] SPEAKER_00: I feel like we've never tried to like push the growth beyond what it what it was ready for.
[23:48] SPEAKER_00: And same things in terms of our client load very much try to look at it as being as like a steady and equal you know any even as we have like progressed not really.
[24:02] Speaker UNKNOWN: Because if we're doing to look at some bullet points beginning in the Chart divisions that that by evaluating depending on any people's growth but just paying conscious of not having like all efforts towards one.
[24:07] SPEAKER_00: One category, one single talent making sure that our resources are spread accordingly.
[24:14] SPEAKER_01: Baking today into a car one advice would you give somebody them was that you're thinking about starting up a business let's say, entrant.
[24:24] SPEAKER_00: to just now. I think that a PR background is the secret sauce. I have to say. Because if you know
[24:39] SPEAKER_00: how to market yourself, if you know how to create news about yourself, this is so powerful
[24:48] SPEAKER_00: in early years of any business and so expensive if you don't have the skill set to do it on your own.
[24:56] SPEAKER_00: So just in my coming from PR backgrounds ourselves, we knew how to do media relations for our own
[25:04] SPEAKER_00: company and we had no clients. We knew how to create events and get sponsorships and create,
[25:11] SPEAKER_00: you know, collaborative opportunities where there is no dollar exchange.
[25:15] SPEAKER_00: And those skillsets to build network through PR. When I look back, I can see how invaluable that was
[25:27] SPEAKER_00: and how beneficial it would be across categories.
[25:31] SPEAKER_01: I'm smiling because I know exactly what you mean.
[25:37] SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's move on some kind of fun rapid-fire questions as we call them.
[25:42] SPEAKER_01: If you weren't doing what you're doing now, what would you be doing instead?
[25:47] SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh. Oh gosh, I have no idea. That's like, I and not in a negative way. I truly, I truly love the job
[26:00] SPEAKER_01: and I love every opportunity. That's good. That's good. That's good.
[26:05] SPEAKER_00: That it's brought. So I am and I'm doing what I love. So it's really hard to imagine doing something
[26:10] SPEAKER_01: else. Yeah, I know exactly what I'm saying. I'm still doing it. So it's exactly that. So
[26:16] SPEAKER_01: what book are you currently reading? What would you recommend or would you recommend?
[26:24] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I am more of a podcast listener than I am.
[26:30] SPEAKER_01: I was going to say listening to seven.
[26:33] SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I still have two young children at home. So I feel like times to read books that are
[26:38] SPEAKER_00: limited. But I have stumbled upon the Heberman lab podcast recently and I love it. I feel like
[26:45] SPEAKER_01: it's a fantastic one. So I've been enjoying that. You have to start listening to the Canada's podcast.
[26:50] SPEAKER_01: Are you a morning or a night person? With three kids, I suspect you're a morning person.
[26:58] SPEAKER_00: I am a morning person for sure.
[27:03] SPEAKER_01: If you had to pick one word to describe yourself, what would it be and why would you choose the word?
[27:10] SPEAKER_00: The one that came to mind when you said that was shiny. And it's like certainly like a word
[27:15] SPEAKER_00: that we use a lot within the company when we're interviewing team members. Like, uh, you know,
[27:20] SPEAKER_00: they're shiny. It's the bubbly, bright personality. What's keeping you up at night?
[27:28] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[27:28] SPEAKER_01: Okay. It's fine.
[27:30] SPEAKER_01: No, you have to go kids in there.
[27:32] SPEAKER_00: A.R. I can't be receivable.
[27:35] SPEAKER_00: I'm just curiously in this industry.
[27:38] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
[27:39] Speaker UNKNOWN: I'm kind.
[27:40] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[27:41] SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that this has been really, really, really fun.
[27:49] SPEAKER_01: It's just one other question I want to ask you.
[27:57] SPEAKER_01: If you knew what you know now, would you start your business like you did or would you do it differently?
[28:09] SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think I actually understand why Justin, I started the business how we did.
[28:18] SPEAKER_00: Now it makes a lot of sense to me now.
[28:22] SPEAKER_00: Um, we were not business plan people still or not business plan people.
[28:28] SPEAKER_00: But when I look back and even even the fact that one of the things that took off the
[28:35] SPEAKER_00: most of us at the very first was our business Instagram page.
[28:40] SPEAKER_00: I can understand why just as my skills combined, um, we really do have like a unique background
[28:49] SPEAKER_00: for understanding like the social space and storytelling.
[28:54] SPEAKER_00: And it was that Instagram page that, you know, I got us our first like interns and
[29:00] SPEAKER_00: started kind of a bit of a media buzz as well helped us in terms of validation we were speaking
[29:06] SPEAKER_00: to our initial talent.
[29:08] SPEAKER_00: So it was a really important component.
[29:13] SPEAKER_01: And it's been great meeting you.
[29:15] SPEAKER_01: How can people get a hold of you if they listen to this?
[29:19] SPEAKER_01: View it whichever.
[29:21] SPEAKER_01: How how can they get a hold of you?
[29:23] SPEAKER_00: Yes.
[29:24] SPEAKER_00: What's it is shine talent group dot com.
[29:28] SPEAKER_00: There's a contact section there for both, you know, brands and aspiring talent as well
[29:33] SPEAKER_00: for talent who are interested in representation.
[29:36] SPEAKER_00: And on Instagram, we are a shine talent group.
[29:48] SPEAKER_02: Thanks for coming on.
[29:49] SPEAKER_02: So