Dan Balaban is a Canadian ‘Powerhouse’ Leading Energy Transition Through an Aligned Mindset & Messaging, Entrepreneurial Initiatives and Global Impact Investing

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[00:00] SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Canada's podcast, the number one podcast for entrepreneurs by
[00:06] SPEAKER_01: entrepreneurs. Hi, this is Angela Fay. I am super excited to welcome Dan
[00:12] SPEAKER_01: Balaban here with us today who is the founder, president and CEO of Greengate
[00:17] SPEAKER_01: Power. Now Greengate Power is a leading Canadian renewable energy company
[00:22] SPEAKER_01: based in Calgary, Alberta. And Dan leads Greengate Power team focus on the
[00:28] SPEAKER_01: development of high quality renewable energy projects. I just want to give you
[00:33] SPEAKER_01: some context of Greengate Day. So today, Greengate is successfully developed
[00:38] SPEAKER_01: 450 megawatts operating wind energy projects in Alberta. And they're
[00:45] SPEAKER_01: currently the largest operating wind-end energy project in Canada, the Black
[00:50] SPEAKER_01: Spring Bridge wind project. So they represent collectively approximately a
[00:56] SPEAKER_01: billion dollars of investment. And they're expected to reduce greenhouse gas
[01:01] SPEAKER_01: emissions by 20 million tons over 25 years and provide a clean source of
[01:06] SPEAKER_01: power to over 200,000 homes. So that's just the context for today's
[01:11] SPEAKER_01: discussion. Welcome, Dan. Good morning, Angela. Tell me a little bit about your
[01:16] SPEAKER_01: entrepreneurial journey. How did you land where you are today? Yes, so I you
[01:22] SPEAKER_00: know, I grew up in Canada's oil and gas capital, Canada's energy capital,
[01:28] SPEAKER_00: Calgary, Alberta. Growing up in Calgary, it's pretty difficult not to have some
[01:34] SPEAKER_00: type of exposure to the oil and gas industry. My father was my late father was
[01:38] SPEAKER_00: an oil and gas entrepreneur. So you know, grew up in you know, in and around the
[01:43] SPEAKER_00: oil and gas industry. But you know, one of the other things that we have here in
[01:47] SPEAKER_00: in Alberta is we've got we're right on the doorstep of the Rocky Mountains, you
[01:51] SPEAKER_00: know, beautiful natural landscape. And you know, spending time outdoors, I grew
[01:56] SPEAKER_00: our you know, real love of nature from a very young age. Started my career in
[02:00] SPEAKER_00: technology. I have a degree in computer science from the University of Toronto. I
[02:05] SPEAKER_00: started my career advising companies on how they could use a new technology called
[02:08] SPEAKER_00: the internet at that time to improve their businesses. And of course, a few years
[02:16] SPEAKER_00: later, the internet is fundamentally transformed the way we conduct and our
[02:21] SPEAKER_00: business in the world and exchange information. I start my first entrepreneurial
[02:27] SPEAKER_00: venture was a software company that I started up at the age of 24. And what we
[02:32] SPEAKER_00: did is we provided the internet-based solutions to help oil and gas companies
[02:38] SPEAKER_00: deal with some of their operational challenges, including reporting greenhouse
[02:42] SPEAKER_00: gas emissions. I had a successful exit out of that business at the age of 30
[02:48] SPEAKER_00: back in 2005. And I knew that the next thing that I wanted to do was something
[02:54] SPEAKER_00: that had a lasting positive benefit on society, lasting positive environmental
[03:00] SPEAKER_00: benefit. But also something that was an exciting business challenge. I did my
[03:04] SPEAKER_00: research and with no previous experience in renewable energy, but a passion for
[03:11] SPEAKER_00: energy started green gate power almost 15 years ago with my brother Jordan.
[03:18] SPEAKER_00: And our goal was to develop large-scale, renewable energy projects. I was at a time
[03:25] SPEAKER_00: where renewable energy was up and coming, but it was nowhere near as much of a mainstream
[03:30] SPEAKER_00: topic as it is today. But over the last 14 years, we've been successful, developed
[03:38] SPEAKER_00: close to a billion dollars of renewable energy projects that are operating today in Alberta,
[03:43] SPEAKER_00: in the heart of oil country. And next year, we're expecting to start construction on our next
[03:48] SPEAKER_00: billion, including a massive solar project called Traverse Solar, which will be by far
[03:55] SPEAKER_00: in a way the largest solar project in Canada, one of the largest in the world, again,
[03:59] SPEAKER_00: right here in the heart of oil country in Alberta. And I think it's creating an interesting
[04:05] SPEAKER_01: conversation. I confess and you know that's because I've told you this already, but I have a
[04:10] SPEAKER_01: personal connection because I'm from Volcan, Alberta, which is a small town in southern Alberta.
[04:16] SPEAKER_01: And you know what's always been curious about where we have a cottage, there's a, you know,
[04:21] SPEAKER_01: this landscape of wind, windmills. And of course, there's more than more than one of those in
[04:27] SPEAKER_01: Alberta. And then I was, you know, having thanks even Jared this year with friends who work
[04:33] SPEAKER_01: in on some of those projects, actually in landscape as quality control people. And then the third sort of,
[04:41] SPEAKER_01: you know, in my face notification was my brother went from being an oil and gas
[04:47] SPEAKER_01: electrician to working on a solar firm near Clears Home, basically. And just like, oh,
[04:54] SPEAKER_01: what? Something speaking to me, I, I need, and you know, as I looked at what was happening in
[04:58] SPEAKER_01: Renewal Energy, your name and green gate rose to the surface. So hence my, my desire to reach out to
[05:06] SPEAKER_01: you. And so having spent some of my childhood in Alberta, you know, we share that in common.
[05:13] SPEAKER_01: Can you tell me a little bit more on a energetic feeling? What makes Alberta, Alberta in comparison to,
[05:22] SPEAKER_01: you know, other Canadian provinces? You said we are the leading resource sector of province.
[05:27] SPEAKER_00: What, why, what makes that so distinctive? I mean, I think it's, you know, fairly well known that
[05:33] SPEAKER_00: Alberta has, you know, phenomenal fossil fuel resources. You know, we have, we're sitting on,
[05:38] SPEAKER_00: you know, some of the largest oil reserves in the world and some really, you know, large gas reserves.
[05:43] SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I've been producing them, you know, successfully for decades. And it's been,
[05:48] SPEAKER_00: you know, it's fueled a lot of economic prosperity here in Alberta. It's fueled a lot of
[05:54] SPEAKER_00: economic prosperity nationally, you know, across Canada. But, you know, with that, you know, we have
[06:00] SPEAKER_00: a real innovative entrepreneurial spirit here in Alberta. It's, you know, it's in our DNA.
[06:07] SPEAKER_00: You know, I think, you know, we've got to be among the most entrepreneurial places in the world.
[06:13] SPEAKER_00: And, you know, driven by, you know, the, you know, the innovation that was,
[06:17] SPEAKER_00: initially started with solving, you know, oil and gas problems and, you know, finding a way to be
[06:23] SPEAKER_00: efficient oil and gas producers. You know, it's also a really easy place to do business, very
[06:27] SPEAKER_00: business-friendly, friendly province from, you know, local municipalities to the provincial
[06:32] SPEAKER_00: government, you know, to the people itself, you know, people are looking for economic development
[06:37] SPEAKER_00: opportunities. You know, so Alberta, Alberta is a really unique place. But, you know, what we,
[06:43] SPEAKER_00: what we've got now is an energy transition underway. And, you know, that energy transition is,
[06:52] SPEAKER_00: you know, creating a national conversation that I think has become way too polarized.
[06:57] SPEAKER_00: You know, it's been framed as oil and gas versus renewables. And I actually think,
[07:03] SPEAKER_00: it's an end. We should be developing our oil and gas and our renewable energy resources.
[07:09] SPEAKER_00: You know, Alberta's also got phenomenal renewable energy resources, which is happy to talk more
[07:13] SPEAKER_01: about as well. In my experience, you know, my, and my cousin works for, um, is, is Encore Energy?
[07:23] SPEAKER_01: Quite often, the, the companies that produce non-renewable become the leaders in renewable energy.
[07:31] SPEAKER_01: You know, they, they understand that that transition that it in order to get from today's needs
[07:38] SPEAKER_01: to the future's needs. It's quite often those, some, those energy resource sector-based companies
[07:45] SPEAKER_01: that are investing in alternatives. Is that your experience as well?
[07:49] SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily. You know, I say that, you know, there are some oil and gas companies,
[07:55] SPEAKER_00: you know, domestic oil and gas companies, you know, in Canada that have, you know, been progressive
[08:01] SPEAKER_00: and have been making investments. But I'd say, you know, generally speaking, we've been a little
[08:07] SPEAKER_00: bit slow in terms of adapting to changing circumstances in the world. You know, in fairness,
[08:13] SPEAKER_00: the changes are happening very quickly and it's, you know, you can't turn an entire economy on
[08:18] SPEAKER_00: a dime. But I, you know, I do think it's, you know, it's really important for us now,
[08:24] SPEAKER_00: you know, to recognize that this transition is underway and, you know, put, you know, put focus and
[08:29] SPEAKER_00: attention on, you know, economic diversification opportunities for this province. And I think, you
[08:34] SPEAKER_00: know, renewable energy is, you know, one of the, you know, one of those opportunities that it's a
[08:39] SPEAKER_01: phenomenal opportunity for this province. So let's talk a little bit about green-gate power,
[08:44] SPEAKER_01: then specifically, those are big words, but paint me a picture mentally. What does green-gate
[08:51] SPEAKER_00: power do? Yeah, so, you know, so what we are is, you know, we're a developer of renewable energy
[08:57] SPEAKER_00: projects. And, you know, the simplest way I can describe it is we take an idea for a renewable
[09:03] SPEAKER_00: energy project and develop it on spec and get it ready for investment by large institutional
[09:10] SPEAKER_00: investors, large utilities. There's a lot of capital that is interested in investing in renewable
[09:18] SPEAKER_00: energy, you know, capital from all over the world. But there's relative scarcity of good,
[09:24] SPEAKER_00: big opportunities to invest in and we create those investment opportunities.
[09:29] SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to jump to my one of my questions about is, you know, one billion in investment. Can
[09:34] SPEAKER_01: you help me understand how you got there? And how do you turn that into ROI?
[09:40] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so, you know, so what we do is we, you know, we invest years and millions of dollars
[09:45] SPEAKER_00: of effort to, you know, to take one of these ideas for renewable energy project and turn it
[09:51] SPEAKER_00: into an investable opportunity. You know, we have to go through, you know, state, you know,
[09:55] SPEAKER_00: local consultations, you know, extensive permitting, you know, engineering, you know, put it together,
[10:02] SPEAKER_00: key commercial contracts, you know, bringing in the financing. It's, you know, it's quite a,
[10:06] SPEAKER_00: you know, a complex process that takes years and like I said, millions of dollars in investment.
[10:12] SPEAKER_00: But throughout that process, what we end up doing is we end up de-risking the opportunity through
[10:18] SPEAKER_00: that de-risking, we end up creating development value. And that development value, you know,
[10:25] SPEAKER_00: the way we make money in our businesses by monetizing that development value in the form of,
[10:31] SPEAKER_00: you know, upfront payments and ongoing economic interests in the projects and ongoing,
[10:38] SPEAKER_01: you know, management contracts in the project. Okay, that makes sense to me. And can you give me a
[10:45] SPEAKER_01: snippet on you said there's, you know, really only a handful of good quality opportunities there.
[10:50] SPEAKER_00: Can you describe what those opportunities are? You know, institutional investors are looking to do
[10:54] SPEAKER_00: is deploy, you know, large amounts of capital in relatively low risk long-term yielding opportunities.
[11:03] SPEAKER_00: And that's really what, you know, what a renewable energy project is. You know, renewable energy,
[11:07] SPEAKER_00: you know, it's pretty obvious that there's lots of environmental benefits associated with renewable
[11:13] SPEAKER_00: energy. But what's really driving the investment is that there are phenomenal investment
[11:20] SPEAKER_00: opportunities. You deploy, you know, significant amounts of capital as an institutional investor.
[11:25] SPEAKER_00: They have an opportunity to deploy significant amounts of capital. But the project produced as
[11:31] SPEAKER_00: long as the sun shines and the wind blows, you know, the fuel is free. There's, you know, very
[11:37] SPEAKER_00: predictable operating costs and the result is it delivers, you know, a really stable long-term
[11:43] SPEAKER_01: yielding asset for investors. And so typically it's a long game, right? So there's a,
[11:47] SPEAKER_01: there's an upfront investment and there's an ROI over quite a lengthy period of time
[11:53] SPEAKER_01: because the wind's always going to blow and the sun's going to shine in comparison to say a tech
[11:57] SPEAKER_01: startup that may or may not last for five years. Correct, yeah. Okay, an institutional investors,
[12:04] SPEAKER_00: who are they? Who are your clients? You know, we've done deals with, you know, some of the largest
[12:11] SPEAKER_00: utilities and infrastructure funds, pension funds, you know, so our first project we developed and
[12:20] SPEAKER_00: sold at the start of construction to an Alberta-based IPP called Capital Power and Alberta-based
[12:26] SPEAKER_00: utility called Capital Power, our second project, Black Spring Ridge, which is the largest
[12:30] SPEAKER_00: operating wind farm in the country. We developed and sold the startup construction to a partnership
[12:36] SPEAKER_00: between Enbridge, you know, the pipeline company and EDF, which is Energy Defront. They're one of
[12:42] SPEAKER_00: the largest utilities in the world and you know, French utility and investing in renewable energy
[12:46] SPEAKER_00: in Alberta. But the way forward, what we've done is we've evolved our business model so that rather
[12:51] SPEAKER_00: developing and selling our development at the start of construction, we're developing and retaining
[12:58] SPEAKER_00: an ongoing economic interest in our projects. So, you know, for example, our latest solar project,
[13:03] SPEAKER_00: we've brought in a Danish-based infrastructure fund called Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners.
[13:09] SPEAKER_00: They're the largest renewable energy focused fund in the world. And what they do is they essentially
[13:14] SPEAKER_00: manage pension fund money and are there, you know, various pension funds vehicle to invest in
[13:20] SPEAKER_00: renewable energy and they're investing in renewable energy through one of our projects. And it'll
[13:26] SPEAKER_00: actually be their first investment in Canada. They've done, you know, billions of dollars of
[13:30] SPEAKER_00: projects all over the world, but this will be their first in Canada. So, we've got domestic,
[13:36] SPEAKER_01: we've got French, we've got Danish investments. Are there any other countries that are kind of in
[13:42] SPEAKER_00: the pipeline for seeing Canada's investment opportunity? Yeah, I mean, this is a story that, you know,
[13:49] SPEAKER_00: not well told enough, but you know, there's been billions of dollars invested by, you know,
[13:56] SPEAKER_00: some of the largest leading foreign investors in the world in Canadian renewable energy, you know,
[14:02] SPEAKER_00: so in Alberta, we have German companies that are active here, Italian companies, French companies,
[14:07] SPEAKER_00: Portuguese companies, Spanish companies. You know, this is an industry that is a multi-billion dollar
[14:14] SPEAKER_00: opportunity and is already, you know, there's already billions of dollars of renewable energy
[14:18] SPEAKER_00: projects under construction in Alberta today. And, you know, it's not a, you know, it's not, I think,
[14:23] SPEAKER_00: a story that's well told enough because I think it's a, you know, it's a really good news, you know,
[14:29] SPEAKER_00: coming from a place that, you know, is going through some difficult economic times, you know,
[14:34] SPEAKER_00: some reputational challenges. And I think this is a bright light in Alberta's economy right now.
[14:40] SPEAKER_01: One question I have, and I'm not sure if I'm quite using the right words, but I have this
[14:48] SPEAKER_01: feeling that, you know, you're, you're change of business model from selling to keeping an investment
[14:54] SPEAKER_01: is good for Canada, right? Like it's, we're not selling out. We are maintaining some, you know,
[15:01] SPEAKER_01: of our own direct investment. Is that, did I kind of capture that right as far as the change of
[15:08] SPEAKER_00: business model? You know, we're quite excited about the, you know, the prospect of owning renewable
[15:13] SPEAKER_00: energy assets long term, you know, we, you know, for all the same reason that our investors in our
[15:20] SPEAKER_00: projects are wanting to own these assets, you know, we're wanting to do the same thing.
[15:24] SPEAKER_00: You know, but I, but I do see, you know, a challenge for Canada in terms of, you know,
[15:28] SPEAKER_00: it's international position, you know, generally speaking, Canadian companies are not growing
[15:36] SPEAKER_00: aggressive globally, generally speaking at large global companies that are aggressively growing
[15:42] SPEAKER_00: growing into the Canadian market, which is, you know, just something that is the reality of the
[15:47] SPEAKER_00: way Canadian business seems to unfold. There are obviously exceptions to that, but I think for us to
[15:53] SPEAKER_00: be beneficiaries of, you know, foreign direct investment in clean energy at this time where, you
[16:00] SPEAKER_00: know, clean energy is one of the greatest, you know, economic opportunities. I think Mark Carney
[16:04] SPEAKER_00: recently said that, you know, the energy transition is the greatest commercial opportunity of our
[16:10] SPEAKER_00: generation. I would agree with him. And I think Canada is in a, you know, a attractive place for
[16:16] SPEAKER_00: foreign investors to invest, you know, we've got a stable political environment. We have a generally,
[16:22] SPEAKER_00: you know, open for business attitude. In the case of renewables, some phenomenal fossil fuel,
[16:29] SPEAKER_00: or sorry, some phenomenal renewable energy resources as well. Dan, if you could wave a magic wand
[16:35] SPEAKER_01: and say, I would love this country to invest in Canada next with you. Who would you love to
[16:44] SPEAKER_00: be working with? I mean, you know, I don't have, you know, any particular, particular
[16:50] SPEAKER_00: favorite, but you know, there is one company that I really, really admire, and that's Tesla.
[16:57] SPEAKER_00: You know, I think, you know, not only do they produce, you know, some of the best electric
[17:02] SPEAKER_00: vehicles in the world, but it's really the vision that they have. And you know, it's more than just
[17:09] SPEAKER_00: an electric automobile company. What it is, is it's a, but their building is an integrated,
[17:16] SPEAKER_00: clean energy company. And, you know, I think that's really exciting. You know, one of the components
[17:22] SPEAKER_00: of Tesla, I think I'm most excited about it, that relates to what we do in renewable energy is
[17:28] SPEAKER_00: batteries. The prospect of battery storage coupled with renewables to allow a solar project to produce
[17:36] SPEAKER_00: energy 24 hours a day, seven days a week, even when the sun's not shining, you know, by producing
[17:42] SPEAKER_00: the energy that's stored in batteries. That's really what's going to enable a, you know, wholesale
[17:48] SPEAKER_01: transition towards electrification. Well, and it's interesting because in my mind, I was as I'm
[17:55] SPEAKER_01: sleeping through and preparing for this interview in my mind, I think, well, really energy
[17:59] SPEAKER_01: companies are, I mean, the sun shines in the wind blows. I just personally, Angie, have no way of
[18:07] SPEAKER_01: harvesting that resource and making it relevant to, you know, plugging something into my, in my home.
[18:14] SPEAKER_01: And so really, in my mind, you guys are, you know, the keys to harvesting that energy, storing it
[18:22] SPEAKER_01: and distributing it into a way that consumers in the industry can benefit. That's
[18:28] SPEAKER_00: absolutely. But one of the things that a lot of people might may not realize is there's no way
[18:34] SPEAKER_00: to store electricity at a large scale today. The electricity system gets matched up in real time
[18:44] SPEAKER_00: with supply and demand. So when you turn on the lights in your living room, there's someone in,
[18:50] SPEAKER_00: you know, a team at a control center that needs to make sure that there's on the other side,
[18:55] SPEAKER_00: generators that are producing the amount of energy to match up with that demand in real time.
[19:00] SPEAKER_00: So what ends up happening is, you know, with battery storage, that allows energy to be produced
[19:07] SPEAKER_00: and renewables, you know, is where this applies the most is energy to be produced and stored for
[19:14] SPEAKER_00: later during peak times when that energy is, you know, when the entire energy demand. So that
[19:19] SPEAKER_00: doesn't exist at a large scale today. You know, there are some examples of that with hydro
[19:23] SPEAKER_00: that are operating. But in general, it's a technical challenge that exists today with, you know,
[19:29] SPEAKER_00: the wide scale adoption of renewables. But like I said, I'm very bullish batteries. And I think
[19:36] SPEAKER_00: it's a problem that's going to be solved here very shortly and going to enable again, wide
[19:41] SPEAKER_01: scale adoption of renewables. Interesting. So the Teslas of the world, welcome. We want you to come
[19:47] SPEAKER_01: to Canada. Absolutely. You know, filter batteries here. Yeah, absolutely. And that's the mission.
[19:54] SPEAKER_01: I, that's going to be our title, I think for our podcast here. I'm curious. I listen to the news.
[20:01] SPEAKER_01: I read periodicals, I read magazines. I listen to people and, you know, they'll say, oh,
[20:08] SPEAKER_01: you know, it's all about clean power, clean energy. What does it mean? What are the
[20:13] SPEAKER_01: measure goals? What are the checklist things? What are the detail around clean power?
[20:19] SPEAKER_00: Yes. So the energy transition is fundamentally about decarbonizing our energy system, reducing
[20:27] SPEAKER_00: the amount of CO2 pollution that's admitted into the atmosphere as a result of the energy that we
[20:35] SPEAKER_00: produce and consume. You know, there's many different ways to achieve that. You know,
[20:42] SPEAKER_00: many different new technologies that are going to be part of the mix. I'd say fundamentally,
[20:47] SPEAKER_00: though, it's really about electrification. So moving from what I would call molecules to clean
[20:53] SPEAKER_00: electron. If you think about the way we produce and consume most of our energy today, you know,
[21:00] SPEAKER_00: through burning molecules, you know, you know, started off with burning wood and then it
[21:04] SPEAKER_00: ended up burning coal and now we burn gas and not, you know, oil and natural gas, you know,
[21:09] SPEAKER_00: burning something to produce combustion, which creates energy. But what we're moving to is a
[21:16] SPEAKER_00: new paradigm, which is, you know, where we're producing clean electrons directly from solar panels
[21:22] SPEAKER_00: or from wind farms, taking those clean electrons, transmitting them directly into the vehicles that
[21:28] SPEAKER_00: we drive, electric vehicles, and, you know, storing that energy in batteries, again, so it could
[21:36] SPEAKER_00: be used for later. Moving from, you know, again, molecules to, you know, a system that's based on
[21:42] SPEAKER_00: clean electrons. You know, it's not like our entire energy system can be electrified, you know,
[21:48] SPEAKER_00: a good chunk of it likely can, but there's going to be pieces of energy system that can't, and that's
[21:52] SPEAKER_00: where, you know, there's talk of things like hydrogen, you know, that's out there. Hydrogen is a fuel
[22:00] SPEAKER_00: that can be burned, but it doesn't produce CO2 pollution. Right.
[22:05] SPEAKER_00: As long as you create the hydrogen in the first place with CO2-free electricity, you know,
[22:10] SPEAKER_00: so there's lots of different things. There's geothermal that's being talked about. You know,
[22:16] SPEAKER_00: there's all sorts of different, you know, pieces of this, but ultimately it's about, you know,
[22:20] SPEAKER_01: decarbonizing our energy system. For me, sometimes I meet a business decision-maker or an entrepreneur,
[22:27] SPEAKER_01: and you have that feeling that they're successful. It, you know, it doesn't come from their appearances,
[22:33] SPEAKER_01: luxuries, or lifestyle. It comes from their strength, their poise, their understanding, and then
[22:40] SPEAKER_01: the energetic all-knowing in relation to the impact that they're making. And for me, the
[22:44] SPEAKER_01: difference is, you know, who they are is what they're doing. And Dan, you are one of those people
[22:51] SPEAKER_01: for me. So you have like an energy about you that's, I just, I feel like you're my, my all-knowing
[22:57] SPEAKER_01: guy in relation to the transition of energy. So thank you for sharing. That's very kind of you
[23:04] SPEAKER_01: to say. Thank you. Thank you for saying that, Angela. And so, I have a couple of, these are more
[23:09] SPEAKER_01: personal questions. Now really is, you know, your clients are these in industrial investors,
[23:15] SPEAKER_01: but who are you really serving in your life's work? I really feel like I'm serving the world,
[23:23] SPEAKER_00: you know, humanity. I mean, it's, you know, it kind of sounds corny to say that, but it's the truth.
[23:31] SPEAKER_00: I mean, I ultimately believe that we're all here, every single one of us, to make the world better
[23:38] SPEAKER_00: in some way and, you know, grow from our journey on this rock floating in space. You know, I
[23:44] SPEAKER_00: don't, I actually don't believe this is the end. I believe this is part of the, you know, an infinite
[23:49] SPEAKER_00: journey that that we're all on. But while we're here, we're here to do, to do good in some way.
[23:57] SPEAKER_00: And we all have that ability. It's in, you know, different abilities for all of us.
[24:03] SPEAKER_00: But I actually, I just feel really fortunate that I've tapped into mine. Like this is,
[24:08] SPEAKER_00: or this is something that I'm truly passionate about, good at it, you know, our company's good at
[24:14] SPEAKER_00: it. And we are having an impact. And I feel very, you know, a positive impact. And I feel very
[24:18] SPEAKER_00: fortunate to be able to do that. And to be able to, you know, to integrate business and, you know,
[24:26] SPEAKER_00: doing good in the world, I think is just about the greatest thing that one can embark on.
[24:31] SPEAKER_01: You're a yes and guy, right? And at least that's what I picked up. And you have a TED talk,
[24:37] SPEAKER_01: moving past polarization. To me, the moving past polarization is probably one of the most important
[24:44] SPEAKER_01: essences in any conversation. In relation to the work that you're doing, what is the core message
[24:51] SPEAKER_01: for you that you want to share here in the moving past polarization? You know, that, that it's not a
[24:58] SPEAKER_00: black and white issue. It's not a binary, it's not a binary issue. There's no reasonable positions
[25:05] SPEAKER_00: on both sides. There's people's lives who are being impacted by, you know, what I believe is a
[25:13] SPEAKER_00: necessary energy transition. You know, we're living in a, I believe, we're living in a way that's
[25:18] SPEAKER_00: unsustainable for human civilization. And unless we change, you know, we're not going to continue.
[25:25] SPEAKER_00: I don't know, you know, what that time is going to be. I don't know how far that is in the past.
[25:30] SPEAKER_00: Some people say, you know, we're imminent danger. Others say it's long way away. But what I know
[25:36] SPEAKER_00: is that we can't continue with the status quo indefinitely. So we do need to change. But through
[25:41] SPEAKER_00: that transition, there's people that are impacted. We need to show compassion to people that
[25:47] SPEAKER_00: whose lives are being disrupted. And there needs to be compassion shown on both sides and understanding,
[25:54] SPEAKER_00: shown on both sides. But ultimately, we need to move together towards the future of prosperity.
[25:59] SPEAKER_01: I love that, which is a perfect segue into a question that I'm dying to ask. And I've, in order to do
[26:06] SPEAKER_01: this, we kind of need to jump into an imagination station. If you like, and we've all social pressures
[26:12] SPEAKER_01: and constructs at the door. So your work title, you get the need to earn money, you know, how the,
[26:19] SPEAKER_01: how things are currently done, reimagining systems that are in place, things like that. Dan,
[26:24] SPEAKER_01: if you were to jump into this imagination and imagine the future of high quality,
[26:32] SPEAKER_01: renewable energy, what does it look or feel like in 50, 100 years?
[26:39] SPEAKER_00: You know, I think that is a timeframe where, you know, we could see that there would be very,
[26:45] SPEAKER_00: very little to no fossil fuels being consumed in the world. You know, it's a long way out,
[26:50] SPEAKER_00: but you know, we're visioning, visioning out. So, you know, it's a, if they totally electric
[26:56] SPEAKER_00: system, you know, we're producing our energy, you know, that's clean from the sun, from the wind,
[27:02] SPEAKER_00: you know, traveling in electric vehicles, probably autonomously. And that's probably not 50 years out.
[27:08] SPEAKER_00: That's, that's probably closer, probably flying vehicles. I would assume as well. I think it's
[27:15] SPEAKER_00: going to be a, the air will smell fresher. It'll be quieter. You won't hear the rumbling
[27:22] SPEAKER_00: of engines and planes flying through the sky. It'll be much quieter and serene.
[27:31] SPEAKER_00: I'm an optimistic person. So, I guess I'm creating a bit of a utopian vision, but
[27:36] SPEAKER_00: if one's not optimistic, then what's the point of, you know, continuing to try to make things better?
[27:42] SPEAKER_00: I think, I think the world, and you know, I'm hoping it's also a world of much more economic
[27:47] SPEAKER_00: equality. You know, I think we can't continue with wealth being, you know, unevenly distributed
[27:56] SPEAKER_00: and increasingly concentrated in the hands of very few. I think we need a, you know, much more
[28:03] SPEAKER_00: equitable economic society. I think it can be done within the capitalist system. You know,
[28:08] SPEAKER_00: I think capitalism is something that drives innovation and drives motivation and, and as it
[28:13] SPEAKER_00: has enabled us to achieve amazing things. But I think we need much more compassionate capitalism
[28:19] SPEAKER_00: going forward. And that's, that's the future I'm excited for. Well, and related to
[28:25] SPEAKER_01: this conversation about the future of capitalism, I interviewed Leora from the
[28:31] SPEAKER_01: Canadian Sustainability Group. I think you probably know, I'm using CalGrid Leora Ross Child.
[28:37] SPEAKER_01: And they are tipping into the question, what is the future capitalism, you know, and it's
[28:42] SPEAKER_01: related to social capitalism, of course. But I just want to kind of tie in a couple of interesting
[28:49] SPEAKER_01: concepts is, you know, I think the hardest part is imagining the future. You know, but you've got
[28:56] SPEAKER_01: practical experience. You were, you were at the forefront of introducing the concept of the
[29:02] SPEAKER_01: internet to companies 20 years ago. And now look at where we are with the internet today.
[29:08] SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to kind of leave Dan as a, as a thought leader in regards to the transition of,
[29:13] SPEAKER_01: transition of energy in Canada and go, if you can think it, maybe it can happen in 15 years.
[29:20] SPEAKER_01: And if you can wave a magic one and give a practical list of consumer and industrial behavior
[29:26] SPEAKER_01: changes that we need to make today to get to that future, what would those, what would that list
[29:35] SPEAKER_00: of behavior changes be? That's a good question. You know, I would start off with energy literacy.
[29:45] SPEAKER_00: I think, I think we generally have, you know, very poor energy literacy and, you know, in the
[29:52] SPEAKER_00: mainstream, you know, I work in the industry. So if my energy literacy is high, but the other
[29:56] SPEAKER_00: areas where I probably, you know, don't have the level of expertise that I should. But, you know,
[30:01] SPEAKER_00: in the case of energy, I'd say, you know, we don't understand it very well. I don't think most
[30:06] SPEAKER_00: people understand how the energy is produced. Right. What's the pollution associated with it?
[30:12] SPEAKER_00: How much energy, you know, different things that I do end up consuming? You know, so I think,
[30:18] SPEAKER_00: you know, understanding where energy come from, how it's produced and consumed, how much we end
[30:25] SPEAKER_00: up consuming by doing different things. That basic energy literacy, I think, is where we need to
[30:30] SPEAKER_00: start. And then I think companies and industry need to heed, you know, what they're seeing from
[30:38] SPEAKER_00: global investors, which is, you know, an increased emphasis on what's called ESG investing,
[30:43] SPEAKER_00: environment, social and governance based investing. And, you know, investors are increasingly not
[30:50] SPEAKER_00: just investing in ways that are trying to maximize profit. They're trying to maximize profit
[30:57] SPEAKER_00: within the context of ESG, maximize profit while doing good at the same time. You know, I think
[31:04] SPEAKER_00: rather than, you know, denying that that's a trend, I think we need to embrace that trend. You know,
[31:11] SPEAKER_00: Canada is among the most just societies in the world. And, you know, so in this world of ESG
[31:20] SPEAKER_00: investing, you know, we should, we should bow very well. I mean, we're a great place, a great
[31:25] SPEAKER_00: destination for that. But we need to embrace that change and innovation. We need to, you know,
[31:33] SPEAKER_00: we need to focus our innovation and creativity on solving this challenge. I think, you know,
[31:40] SPEAKER_00: denying again, you know, the trends that are going on in the world doesn't serve us. We need to
[31:46] SPEAKER_00: embrace them and embrace the technology and contribute to the, you know, to the knowledge base of
[31:51] SPEAKER_00: a human civilization because I think Canada and Alberta are extremely well positioned to do so.
[31:57] SPEAKER_01: On a personal note, Dan, what are the three sources of energy and ideas that fuel you personally
[32:05] SPEAKER_01: and, you know, fueling your thinking, your business, your team? What are your sources?
[32:10] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, the idea, you know, like I was saying personally, the idea of
[32:16] SPEAKER_00: aligning, you know, business with, you know, some type of good, you know, I think is really important.
[32:23] SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I think what really, you know, what really fuels myself and our team is
[32:29] SPEAKER_00: proving out that, you know, difficult things can be achieved. You know, we, you know, when we started
[32:35] SPEAKER_00: in, you know, 15 years ago, you know, there were very few large-scale renewable energy projects,
[32:43] SPEAKER_00: you know, wind or solar projects in this country. You know, there were some, but we, you know, we
[32:48] SPEAKER_00: pursued it with an ambition that, you know, was unprecedented at that time. It was still unprecedented.
[32:54] SPEAKER_00: We're still, you know, developing the largest, you know, precedent-setting projects in this country.
[33:00] SPEAKER_00: And I think we're, you know, we kind of enjoy the role of disruptor a little bit.
[33:07] SPEAKER_00: But, you know, we also, you know, want to create, you know, good returns for our shareholders.
[33:13] SPEAKER_00: We're focused on that. You know, so it's trying to, you know, find an alignment of all those things.
[33:18] SPEAKER_00: But everybody on our team's extremely passionate about this industry, extremely passionate
[33:21] SPEAKER_00: about what we do. And I just feel extremely fortunate to work with every single person at the Green
[33:27] SPEAKER_01: Gate team. Awesome. Dan, how can people get a hold of you after today? Yeah, you can check out our
[33:34] SPEAKER_00: company at GreengatePower.com. I'm active on LinkedIn, Dan Ballaban, and on Twitter, Ballaban,
[33:42] SPEAKER_01: and underscored Dan. And is, are we going to see you anywhere in 2021? I know, you know,
[33:49] SPEAKER_01: there's not as many events and in-person meetings happening, but are you starting anywhere?
[33:55] SPEAKER_01: Is it speaker or anything soon that we can tap into your energy?
[33:59] SPEAKER_00: There, you know, I do regularly speak at various events. I'm speaking next week at the
[34:07] SPEAKER_00: School of Corporate Sustainability at the University of Calgary at a virtual event that they're
[34:12] SPEAKER_00: putting on. But, you know, keep an eye out for it. You'll see, you know, see announcements on my
[34:17] SPEAKER_00: LinkedIn or Twitter. And hopefully next year will be great for our company and great for renewables
[34:23] SPEAKER_00: in Canada as we start construction on our Traverse Solar Project. Hopefully start construction
[34:28] SPEAKER_01: on our Traverse Solar Project. Awesome. And is there anything that you need to get that project
[34:34] SPEAKER_01: off the ground? Any any any sources of energy that we can help you? No, we just, we need to get
[34:41] SPEAKER_00: through the, you know, the final, you know, commercial pieces of the project and, you know, get our,
[34:47] SPEAKER_00: our investor comfortable to make, you know, make the final investment decision.
[34:51] SPEAKER_01: Send us good vibes. Good vibes. Come on your way, Dan. Thanks so much. Thank you very much, Angela.