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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Canada's Podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_01: Hello, I'm Mario Tonigus,
[00:07] SPEAKER_01: a managing editor of Canada's Podcast,
[00:10] SPEAKER_01: talking today on Calgary's Podcast
[00:12] SPEAKER_01: with Craig Sennick,
[00:14] SPEAKER_01: who is Board Chair of More Investment Management in Calgary.
[00:18] SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us today.
[00:20] SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me, Mario.
[00:22] SPEAKER_01: Well, let me just ask just first of all,
[00:25] SPEAKER_01: before we get into talking about
[00:27] SPEAKER_01: philanthropy and social investment and all that stuff.
[00:31] SPEAKER_01: But tell me just a little bit about
[00:33] SPEAKER_01: more investment management and what you guys do.
[00:37] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, that's my day job, Mario.
[00:39] SPEAKER_02: That's what allows me to do my night job.
[00:42] SPEAKER_02: So more investment management.
[00:44] SPEAKER_02: We were founded in 1974,
[00:45] SPEAKER_02: so we're celebrating our 50th anniversary,
[00:48] SPEAKER_02: founded by Chuck Moore.
[00:50] SPEAKER_02: And we manage money on behalf of pension plans,
[00:53] SPEAKER_02: not for profits, foundations, individuals.
[00:56] SPEAKER_02: And we do this globally with offices in Calgary, Toronto,
[01:00] SPEAKER_02: the US and Singapore.
[01:01] SPEAKER_01: Okay, let me ask a little bit about you.
[01:05] SPEAKER_01: How did you get into all this?
[01:07] SPEAKER_01: I imagine there's a little kid growing up.
[01:10] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, probably didn't think you would be in an investment area.
[01:14] SPEAKER_02: No, not really, Mario,
[01:15] SPEAKER_02: because I grew up in a small little town north of Edmonton
[01:19] SPEAKER_02: called Newbrook.
[01:20] SPEAKER_02: And the reason you haven't heard of Newbrook, Mario's,
[01:23] SPEAKER_02: because there's only about 100 people that are in Newbrook.
[01:25] SPEAKER_02: So my dad was a truck driver.
[01:27] SPEAKER_02: My mom worked at home hardware.
[01:29] SPEAKER_02: And I dreamed of leaving the small town.
[01:32] SPEAKER_02: And I did that in the mid 90s,
[01:34] SPEAKER_02: went to the University of Alberta,
[01:36] SPEAKER_02: not really with an idea of what to do.
[01:39] SPEAKER_02: And I thought maybe when I went to U of A,
[01:41] SPEAKER_02: I'd be in accountant.
[01:42] SPEAKER_02: I took my first accounting class and realized,
[01:44] SPEAKER_02: no, I'm not doing this for the rest of my life.
[01:47] SPEAKER_02: And stumbled into a finance class
[01:49] SPEAKER_02: and immediately fell in love with finance.
[01:53] SPEAKER_02: And following a university,
[01:54] SPEAKER_02: I moved down to Tikalgary and started working at what then
[01:59] SPEAKER_02: was known as TD Greenline.
[02:00] SPEAKER_02: So that dates me a little bit,
[02:02] SPEAKER_02: which is the was then the discount broker for TD.
[02:06] SPEAKER_02: And it was a TD that I got to meet the fine folks
[02:10] SPEAKER_02: at more investment management.
[02:12] SPEAKER_02: They were starting to receive money from discount brokers
[02:16] SPEAKER_02: and really didn't know much about that.
[02:19] SPEAKER_02: And I had come over and do a talk on international investing
[02:24] SPEAKER_02: to our clients and following that,
[02:26] SPEAKER_02: they invited me for an interview.
[02:28] SPEAKER_02: And 27 years later, here I am.
[02:31] SPEAKER_02: Oh, excellent.
[02:32] SPEAKER_01: Now, a big area for more is social,
[02:37] SPEAKER_01: like social investment.
[02:39] SPEAKER_01: And I noticed that your three kind of pillars are education,
[02:44] SPEAKER_01: health care, and basic needs.
[02:46] SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit more about that and the why behind that.
[02:52] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, first of all, we are an independently owned organization.
[02:56] SPEAKER_02: So we have over 80 owners at more investment management
[02:59] SPEAKER_02: that all work here on a day to day basis.
[03:02] SPEAKER_02: So we really as board chair here,
[03:05] SPEAKER_02: I think of us having four stakeholders within the organization.
[03:09] SPEAKER_02: Obviously, we have our owners,
[03:11] SPEAKER_02: whose capital is on a line here every day.
[03:14] SPEAKER_02: We have our clients that allow us to do what we do
[03:17] SPEAKER_02: and when we manage over 90 billion for clients across North America.
[03:21] SPEAKER_02: We have our employees and we have over 250 employees,
[03:26] SPEAKER_02: as I said, in four locations.
[03:28] SPEAKER_02: But probably most importantly, as well,
[03:31] SPEAKER_02: is that we also live and work in the communities and those four communities.
[03:36] SPEAKER_02: And they're an important stakeholder.
[03:38] SPEAKER_02: They give us a social license to be able to do what we do.
[03:41] SPEAKER_02: So it's a big part of what we want to do is to give back to our communities
[03:45] SPEAKER_02: in those three pillars.
[03:47] SPEAKER_02: So very important piece of the success of more investment management.
[03:54] SPEAKER_01: Why is it important for businesses in general
[03:58] SPEAKER_01: to give back to the communities that they operate in?
[04:02] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, it's, you know, it's, it's funny.
[04:06] SPEAKER_02: You know, I kind of joke a little bit,
[04:08] SPEAKER_02: given that we just came to the hockey playoffs, Mario,
[04:11] SPEAKER_02: is, you know, I grew up in Edmonton
[04:14] SPEAKER_02: and as a big, big Eilers fan.
[04:17] SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it used to shock me when I go to an Eilers game
[04:21] SPEAKER_02: and it made belief so the Canadians were in town
[04:24] SPEAKER_02: and it was your louder for the,
[04:26] SPEAKER_02: and you knew this was not a trontonians or your people from Montreal coming
[04:31] SPEAKER_02: to cheer for their team.
[04:32] SPEAKER_02: It's local people.
[04:34] SPEAKER_02: And so I, you know, I'd say you got to support the community that you live in.
[04:38] SPEAKER_02: And so when I moved down to Calgary,
[04:39] SPEAKER_02: you know, I immediately started cheering for the Eilers.
[04:42] SPEAKER_02: And I realized, oh, God, I'm a little bit of a hypocrite here.
[04:45] SPEAKER_02: It's so, you know, eventually I transitioned over to the flames,
[04:48] SPEAKER_02: much to the sugar and of my friends.
[04:50] SPEAKER_02: But if you think about it, you know,
[04:52] SPEAKER_02: the, I've, our organization and the people in Calgary have allowed,
[04:57] SPEAKER_02: you know, I've been successful because of living and working in Calgary.
[05:01] SPEAKER_02: So it's, it's a natural part to, to, you know, recognize that success
[05:06] SPEAKER_02: is because of the community.
[05:08] SPEAKER_02: We are allowed to work in it.
[05:11] SPEAKER_02: And so it's, it's important, I think, for organizations to, to give back to their communities.
[05:17] SPEAKER_02: And, you know, whether, you know, I view it now, not on a city basis,
[05:20] SPEAKER_02: but on a Alberta basis.
[05:22] SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I still have a love for Edmonton and, I know,
[05:24] SPEAKER_02: obviously, love for Calgary in Toronto as well into the US and Singapore.
[05:28] SPEAKER_02: And then we give back to each of those communities.
[05:32] SPEAKER_02: And, you know, another area I'm involved in personally is,
[05:35] SPEAKER_02: with the, with the theatre Calgary in town.
[05:39] SPEAKER_02: And, and, you know, that's an example of, you know,
[05:42] SPEAKER_02: the more that we have a cultural sector in Calgary,
[05:45] SPEAKER_02: the more it makes this a world-class city.
[05:47] SPEAKER_02: The easier it is for us to be able to attract and retain
[05:50] SPEAKER_02: a talent from around the world to want to come to Calgary to, to work.
[05:55] SPEAKER_02: And, obviously, have a life here in Calgary.
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[06:09] SPEAKER_01: You mentioned theatre Calgary and, you know,
[06:12] SPEAKER_01: I know recently they, you know, was the big announcement of a major donation
[06:18] SPEAKER_01: by, you know, philanthropist and Calgary entrepreneur, David Workland,
[06:24] SPEAKER_01: for the arts commons redevelopment.
[06:27] SPEAKER_01: But, you wanted to ask you about guys like him.
[06:31] SPEAKER_01: And, you know, guys in, historically in this city, like the,
[06:36] SPEAKER_01: you know, like the, uh, Doc Siemens and the, uh,
[06:40] SPEAKER_01: Harley-Hardch Kiss is of the world.
[06:42] SPEAKER_01: And, but, McCay, you can go on and on and on.
[06:45] SPEAKER_01: Like, I guess in Calgary, like, wouldn't be Calgary if it wasn't for
[06:51] SPEAKER_01: what a lot of these people, philanthropists have done over the years, right?
[06:56] SPEAKER_02: Well, absolutely. And, you know, you, you know, you listed off,
[06:59] SPEAKER_02: you know, half a dozen names there of people that help, that inspire
[07:02] SPEAKER_02: and I view very much as mentors and, you know, the next generation that has to,
[07:06] SPEAKER_02: um, you know, continue on the legacy that they've built in, in this community as well.
[07:12] SPEAKER_02: Um, and I don't think they would disagree with me.
[07:14] SPEAKER_02: I, you know, I, I actually, I hate the word philanthropist, um,
[07:18] SPEAKER_02: Mario, because to me, philanthropist means giving money away
[07:21] SPEAKER_02: without necessarily return.
[07:23] SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I grew up as an investor.
[07:25] SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I look at us giving money into the community.
[07:29] SPEAKER_02: I still view it as doing it as an investor.
[07:33] SPEAKER_02: And, and whenever we give money into the community, I very much view it as we get a return on that
[07:40] SPEAKER_02: in terms of building a better life, you know, whether it is theater, Calgary,
[07:45] SPEAKER_02: or the National Music Center, the Berda Cancer Foundation, the Children's Hospital,
[07:49] SPEAKER_02: they all give us a return to, uh, to have a better life in, in Calgary.
[07:55] SPEAKER_02: And so it's, it's very much, you know, I, you know, I, you had liked to retire the world,
[07:59] SPEAKER_02: the word retire, because I don't think we should ever retire.
[08:02] SPEAKER_02: I think we should retire the word philanthropy.
[08:04] SPEAKER_02: And it's very much continuing to, uh, to give and invest in the, in, in our community.
[08:10] SPEAKER_01: You think the, uh, you know, I ran a lot, some names there and they're, uh, you know,
[08:15] SPEAKER_01: people from another generation, but do you think, uh, the generation after them
[08:21] SPEAKER_01: have followed in their footsteps?
[08:23] SPEAKER_02: Well, I, I like to think I'm part of that generation, Maryl.
[08:26] SPEAKER_02: And I think there's, you know, a lot of people like me that, uh, you know,
[08:31] SPEAKER_02: aspire for a world class city and aspire for excellence and everything that we do,
[08:35] SPEAKER_02: whether that's professionally or personally.
[08:38] SPEAKER_02: Um, and part of, you know, what we want to do as well is to inspire the next generation
[08:43] SPEAKER_02: and, and, and behind us as well.
[08:45] SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, there's a budding, you know, um,
[08:49] SPEAKER_02: millennial generation as well that's been able to find purpose in life,
[08:53] SPEAKER_02: uh, do a lot of great work in terms of technology and, uh, energy as well.
[08:58] SPEAKER_02: And they're starting to, uh, do great things in our city as well.
[09:01] SPEAKER_02: So it's, it's definitely a multi-generational, uh, uh, success and, uh, you know,
[09:07] SPEAKER_02: what we want to do in terms of, you know, really build a great community.
[09:12] SPEAKER_01: Where do you think, uh, on a personal level, Craig, where do you think, uh,
[09:16] SPEAKER_01: this kind of philosophy, uh, was rooted for you?
[09:22] SPEAKER_02: Well, it probably goes back to growing up in a small town area, as I said, you know,
[09:25] SPEAKER_02: I grew up in the town of, of a hundred people.
[09:27] SPEAKER_02: That was my entire life until 18, uh, until I was 18 years old and went to university.
[09:32] SPEAKER_02: So I grew up in a town.
[09:35] SPEAKER_02: I knew everybody, everybody knew me, you know, it was very hard to get into trouble
[09:38] SPEAKER_02: because, you know, it was just, you know, you knew it was going to get back to your parents.
[09:42] SPEAKER_02: So you just didn't, you know, I remember, I remember once, you know,
[09:46] SPEAKER_02: when I was 16 and got my driver's license and I was coming home on a, uh, gravel road from, from school and, uh,
[09:53] SPEAKER_02: lost control in the car and flipped it.
[09:56] SPEAKER_02: Um, and then I had to walk back to a farmer's place and I knew somebody, um,
[10:02] SPEAKER_02: um, drove by the car and saw that it flipped because news got back to, you know,
[10:06] SPEAKER_02: a new book before I was able to call back there.
[10:08] SPEAKER_02: And that's just the reality of a small town.
[10:10] SPEAKER_02: So it was very shocking to me, you know, when I went to the University of Alberta,
[10:15] SPEAKER_02: my first university class had 400 people in it.
[10:18] SPEAKER_02: And the person I said, next to I started talking and, you know, I thought that person was going to be a friend
[10:23] SPEAKER_02: and I never saw them again.
[10:24] SPEAKER_02: It was just the reality of, of university, right?
[10:27] SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, that sense of community that you have growing up in a, in a small town, you know,
[10:33] SPEAKER_02: I very much view that of what we're trying to do in, in a big city these days is create.
[10:39] SPEAKER_02: Uh, a sense of new brick create those small towns in a city where people can come together and, you know,
[10:46] SPEAKER_02: it's, I view it unfortunate in terms of social media and, you know, we have two, you know, major wars occurring in the world right now with Russia, Ukraine and, uh,
[10:56] SPEAKER_02: Israel and Palestine and, you know, there's, you know, I know there's just not a sense of community amongst those, those countries.
[11:02] SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, why would you fight?
[11:03] SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think the more that we can, you know, as I said, create new bricks around the world and, uh, that there's going to be a better sense of people to come together and solve problems as opposed to create problems in the world.
[11:19] SPEAKER_01: You think, uh, you, do you think that there's a longing for that small town, uh, say mentality, especially when you start getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.
[11:32] SPEAKER_01: Right? And, uh, you know, whether you're in Toronto, Vancouver, uh, now Calgary at one point, whatever it is, 1.6 million people, uh, that lure that small town reality gets even bigger as we get bigger.
[11:50] SPEAKER_02: It is, but, you know, we can, you know, we can really do create, you know, communities within a big city. We, you know, we've all been doing that for generations and generations.
[11:58] SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's, you know, and as you do that, um, you know, you know, there's, there's something, um, called the Dunbar rule that as you get, um, over 150 people in your life that it becomes tougher and tougher to create those connections, right?
[12:16] SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, I've, I very much view that as, as a challenge is that, uh, yeah, we, we, we all probably have a community of around 150 people, but how do you grow beyond that where you can still have that sense of, of community?
[12:29] SPEAKER_02: So I see that as a challenge, Mario, um, probably science as, you know, is going against me with that one, but, um, if you got any advice in terms of how to create a community as you grow bigger within your community.
[12:43] SPEAKER_02: And as you said, as cities grow bigger, um, that's what I, I aspire to figure out.
[12:49] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[12:50] SPEAKER_01: It's like those little neighborhood bars, right? Like a cheers.
[12:54] SPEAKER_02: Where everybody knows your name, absolutely.
[12:56] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[12:57] SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, I mean, it doesn't have to be a bar, me a park or library or whatever it may be.
[13:02] SPEAKER_02: And there's been studies that show that, uh, communities that have those social gathering places, whether it be a bar or library, um, coffee shop or whatever it may be.
[13:13] SPEAKER_02: We have actually a longer life spans in communities that don't.
[13:17] SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's a stat that, you know, should resonate with a lot of people.
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[13:31] SPEAKER_01: It's an interesting point too, right?
[13:33] SPEAKER_01: When you think about it is that more and more we're seeing stuff like that, uh, taking place, whether it's in malls or shopping centers.
[13:41] SPEAKER_01: They they like to, uh, you know, become social gathering places as opposed to just a straight, you know, a transactional place, right?
[13:51] SPEAKER_01: And, uh, and, uh, and developments, right?
[13:53] SPEAKER_01: You know, sort of mixed use developments out there that they're trying to create that sense of, uh, like a gathering place.
[14:02] SPEAKER_01: I know that even the stampede, uh, you know, for years, uh, it has, has worked on that, uh, to make it a gathering place beyond those 10 days, right?
[14:12] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100% and, you know, one of the things I talk about here, um, at work a lot is that, you know, I host a, uh, call every Friday.
[14:20] SPEAKER_02: Um, uh, it's a virtual call. It's, it's once again, you can create community physically and virtually at these days, which is great.
[14:27] SPEAKER_02: Uh, so I host a call every Friday and that's once again, it's a sense of bringing, you know, the 200 employees at more together.
[14:35] SPEAKER_02: You know, it's a fun little thing where we talk about what happened during a week. We introduced, uh, new employees that are coming into the organization where we can poke a little bit of fun at them.
[14:45] SPEAKER_02: Uh, we play music as well. I ask people to, uh, to recommend a song because I think people's song choices as well gives an insight into into their personality.
[14:55] SPEAKER_02: And then I always close with the call with, uh, you know, I say, look after your mental physical and social health. And, you know, to me, those are three important things that lead to longer life, uh, spans, you know, mental health, you know, you can do that, you know, in terms of what you eat and, uh,
[15:10] SPEAKER_02: um, and taking time, uh, a way just to focus on the mind, physical health comes through exercise and social health is, is everything else that we've been just talking about is, is creating, um, infrastructure, whether it's virtually or physically like you talked about the stampede and other ways that we can bring together because, you know, we do need that sense, whether we're introverts and extroverts to be able to connect with, with other people.
[15:37] SPEAKER_01: Tell me, uh, uh, Craig about Calgary, Jamboree for charity.
[15:42] SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah. So, uh, you know, this is something we do, uh, personally, this is just another way to, to create a community as well.
[15:50] SPEAKER_02: Um, and so, uh, the purpose of the Jamboree for charity is twofold. It's, uh, it's to raise a profile of Canadian musicians.
[15:58] SPEAKER_02: Um, I have a passion for people that are passionate what they do. Musicians is, is one aspect of, of that, um, that are just passionate about what they do. In many cases, they don't make a lot of money at it as well.
[16:11] SPEAKER_02: And I also have a passion for things I can't do. I'm, I'm not at all a musician. So I love having use people in my life that are.
[16:19] SPEAKER_02: Uh, so it's twofold is it to raise the profile of, of Canadian musicians and then, and the second thing is to, is to get back to a local community based on charity.
[16:29] SPEAKER_02: So, you know, this past year, you know, as an example in June, we had the likes of Jim Cady, Lindsay L and Tim and the glory boys and a couple of up and comers and Alberta, Donna Merrill, Mariah Stokes.
[16:41] SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, that's, you know, so it's this blend of up and coming musician as established musicians, raised a profile of all of them.
[16:48] SPEAKER_02: It's a free event for people to come out to and we asked them to give back to a community based charity, which this year was the radiance society, which provides shelter and programs for a children and, and women that suffer from domestic abuse.
[17:05] SPEAKER_02: And we raised over three hundred and seventy thousand dollars for the charity and, and put 130,000 dollars back into the hands of Canadian musicians.
[17:14] SPEAKER_02: So, we do that in Calgary. We just had our twelfth year here in Calgary and I figured, you know what, a big part of it is Canadian country music.
[17:21] SPEAKER_02: If I want to raise a profile of Canadian country music, best to do that on base street where they have no idea what Canadian country music is.
[17:28] SPEAKER_02: So we've been doing that now as for seven years and in Toronto as well right on base street.
[17:32] SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, what, you know, when you look at Calgary, you know, these days, especially, you know, we've gone through a challenging time.
[17:45] SPEAKER_01: I've, everywhere's gone through a challenging time.
[17:48] SPEAKER_01: What is it do you think about Calgary that, that I guess demonstrates that resilience that, you know, we've gone through a boom and bus cycles and, but we just keep going.
[18:01] SPEAKER_02: Right. Yeah, you know what, I'm very optimistic on Calgary, Mary, you know, this is, you know, this is a podcast for entrepreneurs, you know, Calgary is already really probably the most entrepreneurial city in Calgary for sure and in order to be an entrepreneur, you do have to be resilient.
[18:17] SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, we learn from those bus times, Mary, and we come out on the other side stronger for it and, you know, right now, you know, there is so much going on in this city that's entrepreneurial and leading to us being a better city.
[18:33] SPEAKER_02: You talk about arts, comments, transformations. So, you know, that's going to be the largest performing arts center in Western Canada when it's done.
[18:42] SPEAKER_02: We have a new library, the National Music Center, we got Glen Bull that's going through a major transferational project as well.
[18:49] SPEAKER_02: So that will be the Arts and Cultural Center Calgary. We have a new convention center and a new events center on the Stampede grounds, which is, you know, it's going to be a hub of, of conferences and concerts and sporting events there as well.
[19:03] SPEAKER_02: And one of the most interesting things as part of the downtown transformation as well that we're seeing as well, you know, my wife noted this when we came downtown a couple weeks ago and a weekend she goes, you know, just look at, you know, how many people are walking downtown.
[19:17] SPEAKER_02: And that's because, you know, we've had this project that's, you know, it's getting a lot of press globally as well as transforming a lot of our office buildings that we overbuilt for into a residential activity.
[19:28] SPEAKER_02: So we're creating a hub of residential activity here as well. And so, yeah, I'm very optimistic on Calgary for the long term because of that entrepreneurialism and how we learn from a lot of that boom and bust that you talked about, Mary.
[19:42] SPEAKER_01: Okay. And, you know, we know and Calgary has been called a very entrepreneurial city over the years and number of small businesses here are quite, quite huge, quite a huge number.
[19:56] SPEAKER_01: What advice would you give to aspiring entrepreneurs?
[20:02] SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, I'm probably the last person to give advice on what to, you know, to do with entrepreneurs. It's, you know, it sounds a little bit trite more than anything else.
[20:13] SPEAKER_02: But, you know, the people that I see most successful in in my life are those that just do what they love doing, whether or not, you know, it's, it's financially rewarding or not.
[20:25] SPEAKER_02: But, you know, because I have a lot of those people that we support in the community, you know, we, you know, we talked about the musicians that we support.
[20:34] SPEAKER_02: We also personally support for Olympic athletes as well. And, you know, there's another, you know, a group of people that do what they love doing, but there's just not a financial reward for it as well.
[20:49] SPEAKER_02: And those are amongst the happiest people I know they're not, you know, the most financially well-loved people in my, in my life.
[20:56] SPEAKER_02: But there are amongst the happiest people in my life, whether it's musicians and athletes and in the business community as well. It's those that are most successful that, you know, just they find something they love doing and they just run with it.
[21:09] SPEAKER_02: And they find a way to overcome incredible odds to be amongst the best at it. And so, as I said, do what you love doing and figure out a way to be the best in a world at it.
[21:20] SPEAKER_01: All right. Thanks very much. Craig for joining us today.
[21:23] SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Mario. That was fun. All right. That was great. Craig Sinek, who is board chair of more investment management in Calgary. I'm Mario Tonoguzzi, managing editor of Canada's podcast today on Calgary's podcast. Thanks for joining us.
