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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_01: Hi, this is Angela Fay from Canada's podcast,
[00:08] SPEAKER_01: Connecting Canadian and Global Entrepreneurs,
[00:11] SPEAKER_01: and the founder of Futurable,
[00:13] SPEAKER_01: Imagining and Building Places worth living for.
[00:16] SPEAKER_01: In the past few years, there's been a resurgence
[00:19] SPEAKER_01: in the idea of local communities focusing on food security
[00:23] SPEAKER_01: and local foraging for food.
[00:27] SPEAKER_01: The practice of hand-gathering plants and animals for bait, money,
[00:32] SPEAKER_01: or the table has long taken place.
[00:35] SPEAKER_01: But more recently, top chefs have been popularizing the idea.
[00:40] SPEAKER_01: Urban foragers have told lots of stories about going to great lengths
[00:45] SPEAKER_01: to find wild food in big cities.
[00:47] SPEAKER_01: While rural foragers have access to an abundance of wild food,
[00:52] SPEAKER_01: if you know what to look for.
[00:54] SPEAKER_01: So why in an age where most things we want or need
[00:58] SPEAKER_01: are only a few clicks away,
[00:59] SPEAKER_01: do some people seek the thrill of finding their own food?
[01:04] SPEAKER_01: Why do local commercial gathers choose to pursue
[01:07] SPEAKER_01: these ancient livelihoods
[01:09] SPEAKER_01: when there are less arduous alternative careers?
[01:12] SPEAKER_01: Well, today on Canada's podcast,
[01:14] SPEAKER_01: we are listening, discovering, and engaging
[01:17] SPEAKER_01: with Celia and Benjamin,
[01:19] SPEAKER_01: living just outside of Vancouver, British Columbia
[01:22] SPEAKER_01: in a small town, Port Alberni,
[01:24] SPEAKER_01: Celian Bend, or foragers,
[01:26] SPEAKER_01: whose calling is to help educate and maximize access to wild food.
[01:32] SPEAKER_01: Lots of lived experiences that are deeper connected to foraging
[01:36] SPEAKER_01: and their primary focus today is developing and scaling
[01:40] SPEAKER_01: Forest for Dinner,
[01:42] SPEAKER_01: which serves two purposes.
[01:44] SPEAKER_01: Their business educates and provides experiences for people
[01:48] SPEAKER_01: and their food harvesting, manufacturing, and distributing.
[01:53] SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Ben and Celia to Canada's podcast.
[01:58] SPEAKER_01: Hello.
[01:59] SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
[02:00] SPEAKER_01: Let's start with a little bit of your entrepreneurial journey.
[02:03] SPEAKER_01: I know they are independent for both of you,
[02:06] SPEAKER_01: but you've come together,
[02:07] SPEAKER_01: but just share some of your background
[02:09] SPEAKER_01: and how you arrived here today.
[02:13] SPEAKER_00: So me, I arrived in Canada for the first time when I was 19 years old.
[02:18] SPEAKER_00: I came in Quebec in Montreal to be exact to do a bus or in business.
[02:25] SPEAKER_00: So I guess I had this knee
[02:28] SPEAKER_00: and I did specialize more into sustainable development,
[02:32] SPEAKER_00: which was kind of a new thing back then,
[02:35] SPEAKER_00: because it's been 10 years now.
[02:39] SPEAKER_00: And entrepreneur, yeah, like entrepreneurship.
[02:42] SPEAKER_00: So awesome and Ben.
[02:45] SPEAKER_03: I'm coming from France as well.
[02:46] SPEAKER_03: I mean, we met each other in the city in Australia,
[02:50] SPEAKER_03: but we had that in common that we both went to Quebec to do our studies,
[02:54] SPEAKER_03: even if we didn't know each other at that time.
[02:57] SPEAKER_03: And so when I was 20, I moved to Quebec to pursue a master in agroforestry,
[03:02] SPEAKER_03: master degree,
[03:03] SPEAKER_03: and that was pretty much only place in the world where I can find agroforestry courses.
[03:08] SPEAKER_03: So I went there for four years,
[03:09] SPEAKER_03: and while I was there at University La Valle in Quebec City,
[03:13] SPEAKER_03: I specialize in non-timbabre forest project and temperate agroforestry.
[03:19] SPEAKER_03: So for many years, you know, I read a lot about foraging and white food
[03:24] SPEAKER_03: and what we could do is it.
[03:25] SPEAKER_03: And later on in my life,
[03:27] SPEAKER_03: I tend to be doing something we do actually for real now.
[03:31] SPEAKER_01: And so have you had touched on experiences before starting your own business in forging?
[03:37] SPEAKER_01: Have you had other forging experiences around the world?
[03:40] SPEAKER_03: Yes, I have been a forager since I was born, basically, you know, my coming friends,
[03:46] SPEAKER_03: you know, that's really, really common, at least to go on mushroom foraging as a family activity.
[03:51] SPEAKER_03: And I was lucky enough that when I was two years old,
[03:54] SPEAKER_03: we would go pretty much every summer in the Alps to meet my grandma where I was now there.
[04:01] SPEAKER_03: And we would go picking some trails and bollets and wild berries and nettles.
[04:06] SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I have a picture of me.
[04:09] SPEAKER_03: I was like two years old in the patch of wild blueberries and already, you know,
[04:12] SPEAKER_03: taking so many heat.
[04:14] SPEAKER_03: And it followed me all my life.
[04:17] SPEAKER_03: You know, I travel the bit in Australia and New Zealand and Canada.
[04:20] SPEAKER_03: And wherever I will go, one of the first things I will do is buying a book about wild food
[04:25] SPEAKER_03: and what is edible on the land and out from there.
[04:30] SPEAKER_03: And it's a long journey, but everywhere I've been going,
[04:33] SPEAKER_03: that's one of my focus, you know, trying to determine around me what could be edible.
[04:39] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the person you would do when we would travel would be like,
[04:43] SPEAKER_00: hey, let's see the botanical garden in Syria and learn about the plants and see what's edible over there.
[04:49] SPEAKER_00: So, and kind of same for me, like, I grew up in the Alps and it's surrounding with like,
[04:55] SPEAKER_00: how come, mountain, mountain, how come very sorry.
[04:59] SPEAKER_00: And that was just like a normal activity, you know, we didn't even realize it was a thing until
[05:05] SPEAKER_00: we realized people actually have these connects so much about it.
[05:10] SPEAKER_01: And, and in both your cases, Ben, I mean, doing it as a young person and then
[05:15] SPEAKER_01: it sounds like both of you have kind of done it as a recreation or hobby or fun activity
[05:21] SPEAKER_01: while you were traveling and experiencing different places around the world.
[05:25] SPEAKER_01: That's a big jump from that to, hey, let's be in the business.
[05:30] SPEAKER_01: What, what, what was the trigger where you realized there were opportunities?
[05:34] SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, what is funny is when I was, when I was really young, like, still around 10,
[05:39] SPEAKER_03: you had to do like a training period at home, you know, like from school and you had to choose like,
[05:45] SPEAKER_03: what you would like to do in the future and go one week to try and get to find somebody that doing
[05:49] SPEAKER_03: a job and following. And I remember when I was 12, I went for kind of forestry engineering
[05:56] SPEAKER_03: and I followed that guy and like we call it the Alphoestian French, which is like a bit different
[06:00] SPEAKER_03: than engineering. But basically those guys were in the forest or they long doing some jobs related to timber.
[06:06] SPEAKER_03: And you know me, my dream was like to be in the forest. So I was interested in this career.
[06:10] SPEAKER_03: And like when all of a sudden, you know, about like 10 years ago, I realized I could actually be paid to
[06:16] SPEAKER_03: forage, like to basically be on a headhunt every single day. I was like, oh, that's the best of both worlds, you know.
[06:22] SPEAKER_03: I don't even have to be an engineer to do that. I can find a way to go and harvest product here in the forest.
[06:28] SPEAKER_01: Fantastic. No, I, sorry, Celia, did you want to add something?
[06:32] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I, I, I, I, that it kind of, we, we kind of went through a detour before I ended up to like foraging.
[06:41] SPEAKER_00: Because when we met, we were working in, so I was traveling in Australia and we're picking fruits.
[06:49] SPEAKER_00: That's how I met Ben. And it was really like conventional agriculture, picking fruit for at a peace rate,
[06:59] SPEAKER_00: which was something totally new for me, you know, used to work on salary and it was like a whole new word that opened up.
[07:06] SPEAKER_00: And I think what I liked when we were doing this, a piece of work job in the conventional agricultural word,
[07:15] SPEAKER_00: was that you could become very efficient on what you do, like, you know, learn, like to harvest fast on everything.
[07:22] SPEAKER_00: So we did that for a few years while traveling, but very soon there was something that didn't go right, didn't feel right, you know.
[07:28] SPEAKER_00: It was a lot of like pesticide use.
[07:31] SPEAKER_00: The worker went not necessarily treated well. And after we ended our travel, we went back to Quebec and we lived there for a year.
[07:43] SPEAKER_00: And I tried to find a job back into my field after, you know, being so disconnected for three years after traveling, you know, it was kind of hard.
[07:54] SPEAKER_00: And I remembered a friend telling me about moral picking. And I was like, oh, like moral picking. And I told Ben about it.
[08:04] SPEAKER_00: And then we kind of like jumped into this adventure. So basically we got like we cannot learn that it was like moral harvesting in the west and marine the east.
[08:15] SPEAKER_00: So it was like over like much like a gold rush, you know, like you have like tiny little bits of information.
[08:22] SPEAKER_00: Everything was super secret. You couldn't find anything online about like harvesting morals or anything like that.
[08:28] SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it kind of like got attention because we like adventure. And at the end of this year, we were like, how Quebec is too cold for me and let's drop everything and go for the adventure.
[08:40] SPEAKER_00: So we basically sold that all our stuff to our car really bake. Yeah, bad car. And we just took off for the moral harvesting adventure.
[08:53] SPEAKER_01: So I'm weird. I didn't land you. Where did the morale and picking adventure land you in Zamas City knows an arbiter.
[09:01] SPEAKER_01: I was not expecting that.
[09:06] SPEAKER_03: It's yeah, that was a big shock to be honest. That was right at the end of the road in a really long, whatever 50 kilometers, murdy gravel road with bison.
[09:15] SPEAKER_03: And we ended up in that tiny little tongue with just like a gas station. And everything around burned the previous year. And that's why there was more else.
[09:25] SPEAKER_03: So that was a really big change, you know, right.
[09:27] SPEAKER_01: So actually that that is an interesting question. So are they kind of renowned as a morale harvesting location.
[09:37] SPEAKER_03: No, it's just because like the commercial moral office that's up and seen Western Canada and Western US takes place in wildfires from the previous time.
[09:48] SPEAKER_03: So they really grow abundantly after a white fire just for the following year. And that's why you know like big commercial companies, most of them based in Vancouver will send field buyers in those areas of previous white fire to try and get as many more else as they call.
[10:05] SPEAKER_03: So the obvious locations actually changing every year for more else, which is adding up to the adventure.
[10:11] SPEAKER_01: No kidding. It's hard to keep track, maybe if it keeps moving.
[10:17] SPEAKER_01: Going back to nomadic lifestyle.
[10:21] SPEAKER_03: That's why we like and that's why we made it a job. It's like, you know, Mia, I'm so excited like during the season, say, okay, where are we going to go and harvest this year?
[10:29] SPEAKER_03: And I do a lot of mapping over the winter to try and see the access and how they burn and everything. And so that's really appealing to me.
[10:36] SPEAKER_00: Oh, sorry.
[10:38] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just to add up with like what you say about the nomadic life. That's really like something we've discovered when we arrived like in the West is like we learned about this like very nomadic like harvesting cycle of like people traveling like before
[10:54] SPEAKER_00: and gathering together. We're traveling for together food and you know we got know the more else, but then it was like well then then what you know and then after that is like the central season and the central season where well Vancouver Island, you know, and that's how we end up here is because we just got hooked up with the lifestyle and decided to follow, you know, the mushroom.
[11:21] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just for clarity, is there a consistent season then of mushrooms here in where you are now in Fort El Burnier in British Columbia?
[11:32] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so Morale Alvest is one of the single ones that is really changing place every year. Why most of the other product that we harvest, they grow back every year at the same place unless you get the forest.
[11:44] SPEAKER_01: So they are it's a regenerative crop.
[11:48] SPEAKER_01: Okay, so and just for clarity, I just want for our listeners, I wanted to differentiate between forging versus forage because when you Google forage, you know, in BC according to the BC government forage production is the production of plant material used to feed domestic animals, right?
[12:05] SPEAKER_01: And so and it's used to help sustain beef sheep and the dairy sectors. It is not forging for us is the collection of wild resources off the land.
[12:18] SPEAKER_01: So I want to talk a little bit about sustainable local food, right? That is there there isn't.
[12:26] SPEAKER_01: I'm denying will movement towards that. And so you talked, feeling a little bit about your experiences and traditional agriculture.
[12:36] SPEAKER_01: You know, but let's and some of the problems associated with with that. What does forging do that is completely different or has a different experience than traditional agriculture and what leveraged assets do you actually take advantage of?
[12:57] SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that one of the main difference probably between like conventional agriculture and like foraging is that in foraging the people are independent. They work for themselves.
[13:12] SPEAKER_00: They don't have, you know, any bus or anyone telling them which road to pick or when to be trying to come to each time.
[13:21] SPEAKER_00: So I think that's kind of like the main difference is really this like independence piece, you know, that different differentiated bus worker.
[13:35] SPEAKER_00: And as I've said a little bit like with conventional like agriculture, you know, it's a crop that is plant and you have to harvest it as a certain time and you have to add up like, you know, most of the time some fertilizer pesticides or to kill like, you know, any bugs or animals that you don't want around.
[13:58] SPEAKER_00: Where with foraging it's pretty much harvesting what nature offers. So it's it's the fun part actually because you never really know what you're going to find and it takes knowledge, you know, you need to learn about like mushrooms, you need to learn about plants, went to harvest them at what stage.
[14:19] SPEAKER_00: And because you're self employed and you really have to do like a lot of research before you actually can like go and harvest properly.
[14:29] SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I have, I'm having this flash of Alexander super tramp dying in the Alaskan wilderness because the wrong plant from the guidebook, right. So I just want to give you a lot of credit and a lot of appreciation for the knowledge that you would have as far as what is edible.
[14:48] SPEAKER_01: What is not, you know, and this goes back thousands of years, really human history. And that's a piece of our maybe, you know, heritage that we are disconnected from generally.
[14:59] SPEAKER_01: It's the first world culture, right. Maybe more traditional or indigenous cultures are much more attached to the land, but it is something as I heard you say, then when you say to learn this in school, I have envy that your school was, you know, progressive enough to actually teach you.
[15:18] SPEAKER_01: The values and the experiences of going into off the land and experiencing it.
[15:24] SPEAKER_03: And that's a permanent learning process, you know, it's like it's, it's, you can't take anything for granted and foraging.
[15:32] SPEAKER_03: And you have to be really aware that like, you know, some plants going to look different from a year to another one depending on where they grow at the beginning of the season versus the end of the season.
[15:44] SPEAKER_03: Sometimes you will find them in the ecosystem, sometimes in the other one. And, you know, every single year I add a lot to my personal knowledge and I'm really far from knowing every single plant that I can eat.
[15:57] SPEAKER_03: And that's, you know, sometimes people are kind of scared of starting foraging because there is so many things out there.
[16:03] SPEAKER_03: But, you know, it took me about 35 years to arrive at the stage I am where like now I feel confident to maybe harvest about 100 spaces by myself.
[16:12] SPEAKER_03: But it's like one by one, you know, there is ways to start with really easily reconisable plants, you know, like for example, chantral from the island.
[16:22] SPEAKER_03: And that's a good way to start foraging, you know, just with a simple one. And while you are on the quest for the simple one, you're going to start to be used with all the plants surrounding you.
[16:30] SPEAKER_03: And at some point you're like, oh, these plants I have seen it before, you know, like, oh, what is it? You know, I should look in the book.
[16:35] SPEAKER_03: And slowly, you know, you develop the knowledge of the all ecosystem. And that's where you start with to reconnect to say like, oh, I understand, you know, why is this plant is growing in the middle, why is this one is more, you know, on the wetland.
[16:48] SPEAKER_01: So, how can traditional land owners get more involved in the industry or the practice?
[16:57] SPEAKER_03: That's a really big question. I think, you know, what what we call forage project on non timber forest project, which is basically everything in the forest that is non timber, but that's potentially a commercial value.
[17:12] SPEAKER_03: As we've been overlooked in the last 50 years, I would say, because, you know, for example, the first industry or the natural resources industry like mining, where we are strong economically, you know, and they they were really often the first one to have leads to manage the land, you know, and all those resources have been kind of overlooked because, you know, the kind of money they could bring in comparison with most of those big activities with peanuts, you know.
[17:39] SPEAKER_03: But I think, you know, a lot of things are shifting and as you say, you know, it can be local food, it can be, you know, people willing to reconnect with what they have surrounding them.
[17:50] SPEAKER_03: And I think that's a key, you know, it's like there is a potential commercial value to some of those projects.
[17:58] SPEAKER_03: It doesn't mean we need to go and harvest every single plant and we see because it has a commercial value somewhere in Japan and it costs a lot of money and we're going to deeply the all forest of it.
[18:06] SPEAKER_03: It has to be, you know, manage and to be looked at, but there is definitely a lot of projects, especially in Vancouver Island, that my standard can be obviously sustainably and can add value to the economy, to the local economy.
[18:20] SPEAKER_03: So where I think it would be really important to put some effort is like if the local governments or communities called maybe spend money to research, you know, to see like, okay, what's out there.
[18:35] SPEAKER_03: Can we make an inventory of the resources and is there a way to to harvest these resources that is just enabled and creates economical activity here.
[18:44] SPEAKER_01: And just for clarification, you are harvesting right now entirely off the crown public land, is that right?
[18:52] SPEAKER_03: Yes, on VC crown land.
[18:53] SPEAKER_01: And so again, I see an opportunity there to open up the doors to more traditional landowners or even commercial, right, private landowners or building owners.
[19:07] SPEAKER_01: How can they, how can they either connect with you or connect with the idea of forging as maybe producing a premium product.
[19:20] SPEAKER_01: And maybe shifting a little bit away to the language around commercializing and actually just popularizing, you know, the natural food that the earth provides versus farming it, you know, forging versus farming.
[19:39] SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
[19:40] SPEAKER_00: I think it's, it's a lot of education, you know, it doesn't just come up like this, you know, if people are not aware that a plan is edible and cannot add up value to the land, they won't go for it.
[19:55] SPEAKER_00: So first is really like, you know, convinced people and educate people actually about what grows around them, you know, so then if they know, you know, the potential use of the plant, well, maybe like they're not going to like done this tree where there is like mushrooms growing on the bottom, they'll wait 10 more years before cutting it down because they can get food from the central.
[20:23] SPEAKER_00: So they can sell them or they can preserve them, you know, there's many different like potential use.
[20:29] SPEAKER_00: So once you have the knowledge, well, then we can have a conversation with those people about like what the value added, you know, with the land and the products that the food that grows in it.
[20:42] SPEAKER_00: So it's really like more going into like a bigger vision, you know, than just like.
[20:51] SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about that big version because I want to ask you what in your opinion and experience so far, what can be done from policy, business development, landscape, what can be done, but before we asked that question, can you give me a size and some scope on how big is this industry from the high level enterprise to the SMEs to the individual foragers that you talked about, how big is the forging sector.
[21:18] SPEAKER_03: So first, what is really important is like it's a really great economy where it's really hard to get proper numbers.
[21:25] SPEAKER_03: And I've been really interested in into this question for years, so I digged into it and you know, we have been first and seeing what's going on in the forest as well in like a lot of operations.
[21:37] SPEAKER_03: And a lot of people here in BC are not aware, but there is many companies, most of them based on the lower mainland that actually have a team of field buyers that are traveling all across Western Canada, buying some white products from independent officers.
[21:57] SPEAKER_03: And we're talking about, you know, probably a few thousand speakers that are actually, you know, nomadic lifestyle and follows those field buyers.
[22:08] SPEAKER_03: Some of those big companies, you know, they in the 10, 20 million dollars, revenue per year, there's probably four or five of them.
[22:15] SPEAKER_03: So, you know, it's really hard to say because, you know, there is the edible market, but there is also like health, supplement and other market that are opening up for white food or white harvested product.
[22:26] SPEAKER_03: But, you know, my interpretation extrapolation is like it's probably around 200 or 250 million dollars, revenue of like a BC based company surrounding white food products.
[22:38] SPEAKER_03: So, that's really pinnets in comparison with forest industry, but that's still providing quite a lot of jobs.
[22:45] SPEAKER_03: And there is those big guys, but on the other scoff of things, there is really little company as we started, you know, just doing farmers market and harvesting by themselves, just two people, you know.
[22:58] SPEAKER_03: And it's completely different, you know, some of those big companies in the lower mainland, they main market is export market, you know, some of them will be about 80 to 85% export.
[23:08] SPEAKER_03: And people are not aware of that because they don't see the product, you know, like people are always amazed when I tell them, you know, oh, Canada probably exported, you know, 25 tons of dried marials this year.
[23:18] SPEAKER_03: And people have no clue because they're barely finding the real thing in the show.
[23:23] SPEAKER_03: But on the other side, you know, you have some really little companies that are trying to develop the local market, you know, working really hard, educating people on the farmers market.
[23:33] SPEAKER_03: And we're not the only ones, there is several like us.
[23:36] SPEAKER_03: And what is missing to my standard in BC is in between, you know, middle size company, that kind of like maybe process goods and can be kind of in between doesn't mean they can't do export, but maybe not only focusing on export.
[23:52] SPEAKER_03: And we're looking at Quebec situation and I think that's a way to go. That's what's what what they have been trying to develop in the past, you know, and that's an interesting point you do have some knowledge between the two different provinces because you're highlight.
[24:04] SPEAKER_01: What it what it feels like in Quebec, who is maybe more progressive with their policies and business support.
[24:11] SPEAKER_01: And what what maybe what more could we do here in British Columbia or other regions of Canada support the sector.
[24:17] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I like usually to compare, you know, when we're arriving in Quebec with the food sector.
[24:26] SPEAKER_00: People in you Quebec for the Putin and that was pretty much it, you know, you know, you're right in Quebec and what are you going to eat, you know, ask for people that's important what we're going to eat and.
[24:36] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was like the squeezy cheese of the Putin that was pretty much it.
[24:40] SPEAKER_00: And now, you know, 10 years after it's amazing like people go to Quebec to travel.
[24:47] SPEAKER_00: It's a food destination. It's grown so much. They've rediscovered it for us. They've rediscovered like the boreale cuisine.
[24:55] SPEAKER_00: They've made it as like an argument to go and travel to Quebec.
[25:00] SPEAKER_00: And it's great because then people go to like the, you know, further community. It developed tourism over there.
[25:06] SPEAKER_00: It developed a whole system, you know, right? The food.
[25:10] SPEAKER_00: And that's I guess what's missing here in BC is like this, this like integration with businesses and tourism and all this potential activities.
[25:22] SPEAKER_00: And we've talked a little bit about this, but it also for providing jobs, you know, it's a very important piece because in Quebec what they have is they have like professional association for pickers, they train those, those, those person before they go into the woods.
[25:41] SPEAKER_00: So they have a respectful attitude when they go and forage for food.
[25:47] SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think something that you've shared with me that I'd like to reiterate for listeners is, you know, something that's important to you, you have a deep respect and appreciation for the land.
[25:58] SPEAKER_01: Right? And it's kind of core to who you are and maybe if it was core to more humans and we had more, you know, hands on the ground experiences.
[26:08] SPEAKER_01: I think we would dispel a lot of biases about, you know, fears of not, you know, maybe wild food is scary or you would, you know, have a much deeper sense of appreciation for nature and your local environment and differences really between say, Fort El Burnie versus Northern Alberta versus Quebec.
[26:31] SPEAKER_01: Well, foods.
[26:33] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all about education, again, you know, like we have young children and they just feed from what we show them, you know, like if you act well and behave well and say hello, well, they're going to follow it, you know, or children for them, mushroom is not a mushroom.
[26:51] SPEAKER_00: It's a chancho or it's a morale or it's, you know, they know the name and at the very, very young age, it can start, you know, and it was just natural, you know, for them.
[27:01] SPEAKER_00: So I guess it's the same for everyone around us, you know, if we teach them properly how to respect the land, how to know and how to care about the environment, well, they will integrate it in the lifestyle and then become natural and then we don't even think about it, you know.
[27:19] SPEAKER_00: So I think that's really like our ultimate goal for with our companies really to like share like our knowledge so it becomes something that is just.
[27:31] SPEAKER_01: And I think that's imperative. So I'm just going to take you up on the, I've got a 12 year old girl and 14 year old boy that are just, you know, they've been exposed to the next generation and plant based eating and what it means and some of the.
[27:46] SPEAKER_01: You know, more traditional agriculture ways that we need to know transition out of not immediately, but just transition out of.
[27:54] SPEAKER_01: And so I would love to take you over the offer i'm have the privilege of being somewhat proximate to come experience and bring my kids to hang out with your kids in the forest.
[28:02] SPEAKER_01: So we will do that at some point.
[28:03] SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure.
[28:05] SPEAKER_01: But before we I want to talk just a little bit about I know BC maybe there's still room to become more of a food food technology and food natural place, but then through violence pretty special, which is where you are there is a there is a sort of renowned global positioning as you know for college and valley and Courtney Cumberland to be a bit more foodie specific.
[28:32] SPEAKER_01: And right there in Port Albany you now have a food hub. Do you want to tell me a little bit about that.
[28:38] SPEAKER_03: Yes, sure. That's actually an opportunity that show up, you know, that's what really random that we ended up being part of this project.
[28:46] SPEAKER_03: But we had heard from a really good friend in Port Albany with a really involved in charities and food charity, especially that there was this plan about creating a food.
[28:56] SPEAKER_03: And it was kind of shady, you know, I didn't know exactly what to expect and at some point, you know, because she insisted about two, three times, but some point I like, oh yeah, I should go get it.
[29:05] SPEAKER_03: And I started to Google it and found out about like the BC food project, you know, and the sub-didi get from the BC government.
[29:13] SPEAKER_03: And I found out that there was a meeting two weeks later and that was the last meeting before they would start operations. So we went to that meeting and you know started to explain what we were doing and everything.
[29:25] SPEAKER_03: And like they say, yeah, that's a perfect fit. Like do you want to leave in the food hub? You were like, oh, what's what's commitment? It is, you know, okay, not sure like how big is the things what we're going to do there.
[29:36] SPEAKER_03: But we always had dream, you know, about like trying to scale up to to be able to process what we are, you know, because we've been harvesting a lot of different products.
[29:45] SPEAKER_03: But you always limited when you just need to sell them fresh and that's really, really seasonal products and to preserve them, you need a proper facility.
[29:54] SPEAKER_03: And we had we had that at the back of her mind, but you know, it's like the expense related to creating your own facility to food safety standards and you know buying all the equipment and everything was kind of something that was deterring us.
[30:08] SPEAKER_03: You know, even if we didn't really go too hard in thinking about that kind of project, we knew it would be like maybe $100,000 investment and we weren't sure to commit to something that is so experimental and new.
[30:20] SPEAKER_03: And with that project with the food, the food that goal is basically to provide a facility or space to local food producer to either scale up or having some innovation in the food product.
[30:34] SPEAKER_03: And that was exactly what we were looking for. So on top of having a only is they decided to create a part of the food is actually a commercial sort kitchen kind of commercial processing kitchen where they equipped it's themselves with some of the money they got from different brands.
[30:54] SPEAKER_03: And they basically ask all the potential tenants, so we were one of them what would be your dream equipment there that maybe some product you think of you could be producing.
[31:04] SPEAKER_03: And I was like, oh, I don't know, I need to check.
[31:07] SPEAKER_02: I'm a best listener.
[31:08] SPEAKER_03: And so we send them a list of equipment we were thinking we would be using in the future and they just bought it, you know, and installed it.
[31:16] SPEAKER_02: Fantastic.
[31:17] SPEAKER_03: And now we're facing all to use it.
[31:22] SPEAKER_03: Like, and so that has been a big learning curve in the last year, you know, to try and say going from, you know, just on base business doing the farmer's market to OK, what we're going to be able to process there and what quantity and all we can get things organized.
[31:37] SPEAKER_03: So it might have a chance to be viable in the future.
[31:41] SPEAKER_01: And so I'm hearing really that the beautiful place is helping you to scale affordably.
[31:49] SPEAKER_01: And I appreciate so I'm not sure how to find it.
[31:53] SPEAKER_01: By the way, I have looked for case studies of innovation hubs and in particularly food hubs across Canada and there is a very distinct lack of them.
[32:03] SPEAKER_01: But, you know, what do you think should other communities start food hubs and if so why I think it's a new fairly new movement here in BC.
[32:16] SPEAKER_00: But it's growing.
[32:18] SPEAKER_00: It's growing and it's going to become it has to become actually the new normal because I think what the pandemic has made us realize is that we've been completely disconnected with like our food supply.
[32:31] SPEAKER_00: And we cannot be independent like dependent actually from other country too much.
[32:39] SPEAKER_00: And especially it's really in the case of a violent, you know, there's just so much food, so much evidence here really at our worst.
[32:48] SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we need to be able to transform and reappropriate ourselves the food that is around us.
[32:56] SPEAKER_00: And for the food hub, for instance, in perverity, it's really more based around like seafood.
[33:01] SPEAKER_00: So we were kind of like the more terrestrial addition.
[33:04] SPEAKER_00: So that's why we get like, you know, kind of a place of choice.
[33:10] SPEAKER_00: But I, you know, for instance, for the fish, I remember when we when we were living in perverity, that you cannot buy any fresh food, you know, fresh fish, you know,
[33:21] SPEAKER_00: you would just be fished in the inlet, get shipped to Vancouver and whatever is not sold every day would go back to like right there for it was just, you know, really silly, ultimately it made no sense.
[33:35] SPEAKER_00: So I think those food hub really help to promote local food, local economy because it also provide jobs to, you know, people around around the community, which is very important for community like part of Bernie.
[33:49] SPEAKER_00: And it's, it's developing in lots of different city across the island and I think that, ultimately, that's, that's very important and great that is happening.
[34:01] SPEAKER_03: And that's how you can maybe on the, on the long run, create affordable local food because that's one of these you as well, you know, it's like to be honest, you know, a lot of people counter for local food because it's too expensive.
[34:15] SPEAKER_03: And we have been doing the most street market for seven years now in Victoria and it's not cheap to buy everything on the market and even if some people would love to do so, it's not easy.
[34:27] SPEAKER_03: And what's the pandemic made us realizing is like what you see as cheap food at the supermarket is is it's kind of even price, you know, it shouldn't be, it shouldn't be that price.
[34:38] SPEAKER_03: If it's so cheap that because it has been harvested but foreign workers that were weren't paid properly, that because that's been using really huge lens and really huge, you know, scale.
[34:50] SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, if we develop and we put money to develop the local food system, maybe we can hand up with something that is a bit more affordable, not as much difference in pricing with the imported goods.
[35:04] SPEAKER_03: And I think that's a really important way to develop local food. And don't get me wrong when we say before like BC maybe it's liking food culture in some places.
[35:13] SPEAKER_03: I one of the main reason why we are in Vancouver Island is like, you know, there is a lot of things going on about food security and innovation.
[35:22] SPEAKER_03: And I mean, we know a lot of small companies in the island, these are farmers or like cheese makers or beekeepers.
[35:29] SPEAKER_03: And that's really exciting, you know, what everything is going on. But still, you know, if you really look at the raw numbers, the statistics shows that what is consumed in Vancouver Island and that actually comes from Vancouver Island is being really little.
[35:42] SPEAKER_03: There is a lot of firms.
[35:43] SPEAKER_01: Absolutely. I think I think I don't have it statistically right, but my understanding is something like 92% of our food is imported.
[35:54] Speaker UNKNOWN:
[35:55] SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I'm part of a group called in island innovation. It's a global group of economic developers and consultants in trying to grow island based economies.
[36:07] SPEAKER_01: And they're all in the same boat. Literally, they, you know, they have to import their completely self-reliant on or externally reliant on imports.
[36:21] SPEAKER_01: And so foraging could be another solution, right, and educating in these micro environments in other places as well as, you know, your own business.
[36:31] SPEAKER_01: I see huge opportunity there. I want to just kind of wrap up. Really, we had two goals between us. We wanted to shift the conversation from, you know, maybe perceived biases or fear from, from wild food being wild and unattainable or not a solution to feeding local populations and making sure that we are looking to shift that conversation into one of abundance.
[36:59] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just clearly think we did that today. And the second one is shifting the food system. And, you know, Ben, I know you're passionate about trying to, you know, keep as much domestic trade as possible versus, you know, the bit like your example where we're exporting so much and the locals don't have any access to whatsoever.
[37:21] SPEAKER_01: Is there anything else in either of those goals shifting the conversation or shifting the food system that you'd like to highlight?
[37:30] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think you, you got it right. I think like as a business or ultimate goal is to leave comfortably from our job, you know, we don't want to work for nothing.
[37:45] SPEAKER_00: But we don't need like so much, you know, we don't need to go as like big export nonsense, ultimately, you know, I think there's like really a middle ground where we can live well and we can enjoy the land, we can respect it, we can have like a connection with the community around us, provide jobs and just live happily, you know, all together.
[38:12] SPEAKER_00: It's like it's so silly, but it's really what I believe you'll team it up.
[38:17] SPEAKER_00: The political level of, of, of, of, of, of, you know, what we do.
[38:23] SPEAKER_00: And Ben?
[38:24] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think, you know, me, what is really, really important in getting into that new facility and starting processing is like, so we want to try and go into retail, you know, with some of our products.
[38:35] SPEAKER_03: And it's like, I remember when I was at uni, you know, like a lot of our teacher and first we were telling us like, we need to add value, we need to add value, we need to add value, you know, the problem is like grow a product export.
[38:47] SPEAKER_03: And you know, that is the case in Vancouver Island for log export. There's been a lot of, you know, conversations surrounding it.
[38:54] SPEAKER_03: And I'm really glad to see that in portal, Ben is a developed a new meal that is actually transforming product for real.
[39:01] SPEAKER_03: And it's going to give value added products and jobs local jobs, you know, instead of exporting the job.
[39:07] SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, even so the foraging industry is small. I think it does apply to foraging industry as well, you know, there is resources there.
[39:16] SPEAKER_03: And instead of, you know, it doesn't mean we can't do export and we did do some export and we might keep doing it in the future.
[39:22] SPEAKER_03: But there is room for adding value to the product. And that's really what we want to try to do is showing like, yes, there is resources.
[39:30] SPEAKER_03: But yes, we can do something and maybe with a French background, you know, like gastronomy, we like to try new times and we can also.
[39:37] SPEAKER_03: And that's maybe one way of adding value and there is maybe many other ways. But what I think is important is focusing on like, whatever resource we have, natural resource.
[39:45] SPEAKER_03: Can we add value to it before sending it?
[39:48] SPEAKER_01: Well, I have the privilege of actually knowing because we've talked before, but just because we're in this conversation, can you give me some examples of value added from your product, other than just the raw food.
[39:59] SPEAKER_03: So for example, we are working right now on some marinade, pickled chantrails. So something that you would have for an appetizer or like with a glass of wine and cheese platter.
[40:11] SPEAKER_03: Just, you know, like, yes, something, you know, preserve in the glass jars and you can sell it year long, you know, instead of just having like some raw fresh chantrails.
[40:22] SPEAKER_03: And that's something really good. And there is tons of ideas, you know, like, there is so many chefs that have ideas about food development and food innovation.
[40:29] SPEAKER_00: And the question is just having, you know, the equipment and the organization to do it and to actually sell it, you know, even all jams, you know, like our well buried jam, we have a, you know, decided will stick just just to eight, but there is many more we could do.
[40:45] SPEAKER_00: And I mean, it's again creating that conversation with people around us because people don't even know there is like Montana Calgary here growing in abundance in in the island.
[40:56] SPEAKER_00: They don't know what a bread a Calgary is. So with like a product that everyone knows and use and that is easy to appreciate.
[41:04] SPEAKER_00: Well, you create that conversation, you create that knowledge, you know, and pass it on to the different generation and then you care for your place.
[41:11] SPEAKER_00: So it's a really good tool to use food that everyone enjoys and knows and just to, yeah.
[41:20] SPEAKER_03: And one of the ultimate goal of the food is actually to, you know, communicate in between tenants and different industry to actually maybe develop some product together, you know, like,
[41:32] SPEAKER_03: they doing smoke fish on one side, we're doing spruce tips on the other side and we do something together that like, you know, I like all the products from the island.
[41:41] SPEAKER_01: And really, that's the, you know, it's the ultimate maker space, right, is where collaboration has happened. Is there still room for people at the food house?
[41:49] SPEAKER_03: There is, there is a, so not as insurance for now, but of course this commercial processing kitchen is open to any business that's that is in the valley and anybody that would like to innovate, test some your product or even process a product there.
[42:06] SPEAKER_00: They can book some hours there and do that. And it's really affordable and it's great. It's great that emulation, you know, when there's many people around you.
[42:16] SPEAKER_01: I'm imagining a tasting dinner where I get to come and test your food and test your central and, you know,
[42:22] SPEAKER_03: and that's it. They probably, you know, one of the goal as well is they developing every day shop at the food every self and maybe your restaurants as well, showcasing the products.
[42:30] SPEAKER_01: For sure. Celia Benjamin, it has been a pleasure of learning off a lot about forging that I was not aware of the size and scope of the industry, the values and opportunities for local communities to hopefully build their own food hubs and support more access and education.
[42:49] SPEAKER_01: Thank you for stimulating the conversation. How can our listeners get a hold of you post podcast?
[42:55] SPEAKER_03: They can go on our Instagram or Facebook account and the website right now is in process of redesigning. So soon they're going to be having access to a brand new website.
[43:06] SPEAKER_01: Okay. And can you give us actually spell it out for us? So maybe Facebook is Facebook slash slash slash for dinner or Instagram just putting the search engine like for us for dinner.
[43:16] SPEAKER_00: And for the website for us for dinner dot C a.
[43:20] SPEAKER_01: Okay. Thanks for joining us on Catalyst podcast. We'll see you again soon.
[43:25] SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
[43:27] Speaker UNKNOWN:
