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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_01: It's Toronto's podcast on the Canada's podcast network.
[00:06] SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, I'm Angie Asesu, your Toronto's host for Canada's podcast,
[00:11] SPEAKER_00: Nations Number One, Angie Penelope Network.
[00:13] SPEAKER_00: I am joined today by Angela Pagolstein.
[00:16] SPEAKER_00: She is the founder of Kinesics Consulting.
[00:20] SPEAKER_00: Angela, welcome.
[00:22] SPEAKER_00: Hi, thank you so much for having me.
[00:24] SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure.
[00:25] SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure to have you.
[00:26] SPEAKER_00: I know you have a very busy day today,
[00:29] SPEAKER_00: so we appreciate your time.
[00:31] SPEAKER_00: And we just wanted to sort of find out more about you,
[00:36] SPEAKER_00: who you are and what you do.
[00:40] SPEAKER_01: So it's a little bit of a long story,
[00:42] SPEAKER_01: but they're giving you a short version.
[00:44] SPEAKER_01: And I'm a serial entrepreneur.
[00:46] SPEAKER_01: I have received awards for that.
[00:48] SPEAKER_01: And I'm involved in multiple businesses,
[00:50] SPEAKER_01: not just the Kinesics, which are one of my main ones
[00:54] SPEAKER_01: that I've been known for, which is specializing
[00:57] SPEAKER_01: in nonverbal communication.
[00:59] SPEAKER_01: That's in general.
[01:00] SPEAKER_01: So I'm involved in multiple businesses,
[01:02] SPEAKER_01: the Kinesics is the front, I would say.
[01:06] SPEAKER_00: So tell us a little bit about different businesses
[01:08] SPEAKER_00: that you founded or owned and operate.
[01:12] SPEAKER_00: And how did you become an entrepreneur?
[01:15] SPEAKER_00: Was it by chance?
[01:17] SPEAKER_00: Is, were you born to be an entrepreneur?
[01:22] SPEAKER_01: It's a hard question, but I've been born to be an entrepreneur
[01:24] SPEAKER_01: or in the situation puts you there, right?
[01:27] SPEAKER_01: I think it's a combination of multiple things.
[01:31] SPEAKER_01: It was hard for me growing up.
[01:33] SPEAKER_01: I was not in the, say, best environment.
[01:36] SPEAKER_01: So in a sense, I think their environment also
[01:39] SPEAKER_01: put me in a state that I have to fetch for myself
[01:42] SPEAKER_01: and create.
[01:43] SPEAKER_01: So I left home when I was 17.
[01:46] SPEAKER_01: I never finished school.
[01:47] SPEAKER_01: I did 12 years of studying in Israel,
[01:50] SPEAKER_01: but I never finished with an actual school diploma.
[01:53] SPEAKER_01: And schooling was always hard for me.
[01:57] SPEAKER_01: And I naturally gravitated to the entrepreneurship.
[02:01] SPEAKER_01: And I, very big in learning, I love,
[02:03] SPEAKER_01: I'm always really, really hungry for knowledge and growth.
[02:07] SPEAKER_01: I always say, I'm last year and this year,
[02:11] SPEAKER_01: the same, then there's something wrong.
[02:14] SPEAKER_01: So for that reason, I think there is some natural kind
[02:19] SPEAKER_01: of development and need that I'm hungry for knowledge.
[02:22] SPEAKER_01: And that makes me a better entrepreneur.
[02:25] SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, I think it's also the environment.
[02:27] SPEAKER_01: As well growing up in the country, like Israel,
[02:30] SPEAKER_01: it's very innovative.
[02:33] SPEAKER_01: We naturally, basically, told ask questions and questions
[02:37] SPEAKER_01: things, which I know in different cultures.
[02:40] SPEAKER_01: And that may be come across as did you questioning somebody
[02:44] SPEAKER_01: and you're not confident about that person.
[02:47] SPEAKER_01: But from my background, where I'm coming from,
[02:49] SPEAKER_01: it's more to understand better.
[02:50] SPEAKER_01: So I want to question more.
[02:52] SPEAKER_01: And I want to ask you a lot of questions
[02:54] SPEAKER_01: to better understand.
[02:55] SPEAKER_01: So I can formulate my own opinion or I can agree
[02:59] SPEAKER_01: or disagree with you.
[03:00] SPEAKER_01: But I need to understand that.
[03:02] SPEAKER_01: And that's really a key factor for a really good successful
[03:05] SPEAKER_01: entrepreneur, where they can gather information and data,
[03:08] SPEAKER_01: but then make the decisions with their own.
[03:11] SPEAKER_01: So I think that the question of was it natural or was it
[03:15] SPEAKER_01: environment?
[03:15] SPEAKER_01: I think it's both.
[03:17] SPEAKER_01: I'm involved in different stuff, as I said, kinetics
[03:21] SPEAKER_01: is the front.
[03:22] SPEAKER_01: But I had entertainment companies.
[03:25] SPEAKER_01: I had dance studios.
[03:27] SPEAKER_01: I'm involved in tech.
[03:30] SPEAKER_01: So I'm advised.
[03:31] SPEAKER_01: And I help build tech companies.
[03:35] SPEAKER_01: I have a company that now with the COVID-19
[03:38] SPEAKER_01: we're built, and it will be fantastic,
[03:40] SPEAKER_01: which is virtual connections.
[03:43] SPEAKER_01: We're connecting businesses online.
[03:47] SPEAKER_01: And kinetics.
[03:48] SPEAKER_01: And then I'm volunteer, so I volunteer.
[03:50] SPEAKER_01: I think it's so important to give back.
[03:52] SPEAKER_01: When you're ready to give back, I think there's a certain time
[03:55] SPEAKER_01: in your life.
[03:56] SPEAKER_01: You're ready to give back.
[03:57] SPEAKER_01: And when you are, I think it's extremely important to do that.
[04:00] SPEAKER_01: And so I was involved in education,
[04:02] SPEAKER_01: and I was involved in quantum computing.
[04:07] SPEAKER_01: So I'm involved in many things.
[04:10] SPEAKER_01: Yes.
[04:11] SPEAKER_00: That's wonderful.
[04:12] SPEAKER_00: And I think you're right when you say
[04:15] SPEAKER_00: entrepreneurship is learning all the time.
[04:20] SPEAKER_00: It never stops.
[04:22] SPEAKER_00: And it's almost like being in a school all the time.
[04:26] SPEAKER_00: Yes.
[04:26] SPEAKER_00: Because you can never learn enough.
[04:29] SPEAKER_00: And it's not like you graduate and you're done.
[04:30] SPEAKER_00: And you can say it, I'm an entrepreneur now.
[04:33] SPEAKER_00: That's right.
[04:34] SPEAKER_00: It's constant learning about something new.
[04:36] SPEAKER_00: Something else comes up.
[04:38] SPEAKER_00: That's right.
[04:39] SPEAKER_01: And when I say often when I mentor entrepreneurs,
[04:41] SPEAKER_01: I say, I have a question for you.
[04:44] SPEAKER_01: Is this a business or is that a hobby?
[04:48] SPEAKER_01: Because I find a lot of entrepreneurs
[04:50] SPEAKER_01: that come to the market, they want to do a hobby.
[04:53] SPEAKER_01: They're passionate about something.
[04:54] SPEAKER_01: They're excited about something.
[04:56] SPEAKER_01: They create them about something.
[04:57] SPEAKER_01: But it's not a business.
[04:59] SPEAKER_01: It's a hobby.
[05:00] SPEAKER_01: And then something develops out of that.
[05:02] SPEAKER_01: They're happy.
[05:03] SPEAKER_01: And if not, it's not.
[05:05] SPEAKER_01: Actually being an entrepreneur or business person,
[05:07] SPEAKER_01: that meaning that you are 24-7 on it.
[05:11] SPEAKER_01: It means you're learning.
[05:12] SPEAKER_01: You're growing.
[05:12] SPEAKER_01: And this is something that your business today
[05:15] SPEAKER_01: is in a sort of phase.
[05:17] SPEAKER_01: Then it's around seed money phase.
[05:21] SPEAKER_01: And then it's gross phase and then it's scaling phase.
[05:24] SPEAKER_01: And then the business is involving.
[05:26] SPEAKER_01: As the business is involving, you have to involve.
[05:28] SPEAKER_01: Then if you're not involving faster than the business,
[05:32] SPEAKER_01: there will be a problem.
[05:34] SPEAKER_01: You have to learn to be able to grow your business.
[05:37] SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, it's a hobby.
[05:38] SPEAKER_01: It's a hobby.
[05:39] SPEAKER_01: You enjoy it.
[05:40] SPEAKER_01: But you not necessarily have to put the work for it.
[05:43] SPEAKER_01: You just having fun with it.
[05:46] SPEAKER_00: So do you think there's a lot of entrepreneurs who say,
[05:49] SPEAKER_00: I started my business as sort of a side hustle.
[05:52] SPEAKER_00: Do you think that's possible to start it as a side hustle
[05:55] SPEAKER_00: and then grow it into a full-time business?
[05:57] SPEAKER_00: Or would you suggest, because you shadow entrepreneurs
[06:00] SPEAKER_00: and counsel them, would you suggest going in full-time
[06:05] SPEAKER_00: and not doing it as a side hustle?
[06:08] SPEAKER_01: I think it depends on the business.
[06:09] SPEAKER_01: For an example, coaching business, it's very different.
[06:13] SPEAKER_01: Coaching business is something that you can try
[06:16] SPEAKER_01: and see how it goes.
[06:18] SPEAKER_01: For an example, you are a mom.
[06:21] SPEAKER_01: Like it's in your case, you're a mom,
[06:23] SPEAKER_01: and you always had a corporate job,
[06:25] SPEAKER_01: but you're passionate about kids' developments.
[06:28] SPEAKER_01: But you don't know what to do.
[06:29] SPEAKER_01: Yes, so yes, you can start talking,
[06:32] SPEAKER_01: putting yourself online, seeing what's going on.
[06:35] SPEAKER_01: And if you see that that's becoming something
[06:38] SPEAKER_01: that is bigger and you want to pursue that,
[06:40] SPEAKER_01: then you need to shift your business mindset.
[06:42] SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, it will not be successful
[06:44] SPEAKER_01: because you're not thinking the right way
[06:46] SPEAKER_01: in a sense of capital, charging, scaling, et cetera.
[06:50] SPEAKER_01: And it's okay, it's okay if it's just a platform
[06:53] SPEAKER_01: for you to talk to people.
[06:55] SPEAKER_01: So yes, it's okay to start as a hobby
[06:58] SPEAKER_01: or something for you as an outlet.
[07:00] SPEAKER_01: But then if you want to change your business setting,
[07:03] SPEAKER_01: then you have to start thinking business
[07:05] SPEAKER_01: and taking the right lessons or classes
[07:07] SPEAKER_01: or books or follow the right people to do that.
[07:12] SPEAKER_00: And I was gonna say, really getting to that next stage.
[07:15] SPEAKER_00: How long will you stay a hustle or a side hustle business?
[07:19] SPEAKER_01: That's right.
[07:20] SPEAKER_01: And but in some businesses, I would say no.
[07:23] SPEAKER_01: In some businesses, for example, tech business.
[07:26] SPEAKER_01: If you do a tech business, if you're building a platform,
[07:29] SPEAKER_01: if you want to scale that,
[07:31] SPEAKER_01: then there's no reason for you to get into it,
[07:34] SPEAKER_01: invest money, invest time,
[07:38] SPEAKER_01: invest maybe others people capital
[07:39] SPEAKER_01: if you're not serious about it.
[07:42] SPEAKER_01: I agree, that's great feedback.
[07:45] SPEAKER_00: How did you get into your area of expertise?
[07:47] SPEAKER_00: And let's talk about kinetics specifically.
[07:51] SPEAKER_00: What exactly do you do?
[07:53] SPEAKER_01: So in kinetics, so I'm a behavior analyst
[07:55] SPEAKER_01: and I specialize in that verbal communication.
[07:59] SPEAKER_01: And in kinetics, we work with companies and individuals
[08:01] SPEAKER_01: for them to better understand the self,
[08:03] SPEAKER_01: the messages they're giving and how to read others.
[08:06] SPEAKER_01: Having said that in that company would make sure
[08:08] SPEAKER_01: that you first understand yourself
[08:11] SPEAKER_01: before you start reading others.
[08:12] SPEAKER_01: Because there are a lot of people in a lot of books,
[08:14] SPEAKER_01: they tell you that a certain gesture
[08:17] SPEAKER_01: means you're not interested in your reserve.
[08:20] SPEAKER_01: Reading people is very, very, very complex.
[08:23] SPEAKER_01: And if you don't really understand yourself first,
[08:25] SPEAKER_01: you will be the one contaminating the conversation.
[08:28] SPEAKER_01: You reconterminate that reading.
[08:30] SPEAKER_01: And you would not know, is it your bias
[08:33] SPEAKER_01: that's happening that contaminating it?
[08:36] SPEAKER_01: If it's the environment, is it your non,
[08:38] SPEAKER_01: actually your nonverbal, is it your questions?
[08:41] SPEAKER_01: So understanding yourself and what are you giving out
[08:45] SPEAKER_01: as the main fundamental?
[08:47] SPEAKER_01: And so we really hard, really hard focused on that.
[08:51] SPEAKER_01: And then we go into reading others,
[08:53] SPEAKER_01: which is really important as well,
[08:56] SPEAKER_01: especially in business.
[08:57] SPEAKER_01: But having said that, you have to make sure
[08:58] SPEAKER_01: that you're reading properly.
[09:01] SPEAKER_01: And you're not just making assumptions.
[09:02] SPEAKER_01: Because that's really, really common.
[09:05] SPEAKER_01: People make assumptions.
[09:06] SPEAKER_01: And they put their own bias.
[09:07] SPEAKER_01: And they think they're reading people.
[09:09] SPEAKER_01: And it's not reading people.
[09:10] SPEAKER_00: And have you worked with a lot of entrepreneurs?
[09:12] SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of them may struggle
[09:15] SPEAKER_00: when it comes to doing pitches for our funding
[09:19] SPEAKER_00: and body language.
[09:21] SPEAKER_00: If you're closed off, are you open to suggestions?
[09:25] SPEAKER_00: As well as reading the possible investors?
[09:29] SPEAKER_01: So yes, I was part of that.
[09:31] SPEAKER_01: I was part of judging startups, infestibles, and material.
[09:36] SPEAKER_01: I was invited to train people in startup world.
[09:41] SPEAKER_01: Those not necessarily my main clients,
[09:44] SPEAKER_01: my demographic as on business, bigger companies
[09:48] SPEAKER_01: that come to train or executives
[09:50] SPEAKER_01: that shifting to a leadership role.
[09:52] SPEAKER_01: Having said that, at the same time,
[09:53] SPEAKER_01: I do love working with entrepreneurs.
[09:57] SPEAKER_01: And I'm heavily involved with that.
[09:58] SPEAKER_01: So I mentor them.
[09:59] SPEAKER_01: And I've been invited to judge or to train them
[10:04] SPEAKER_01: before they do a pitch.
[10:06] SPEAKER_01: And so yes, I'm definitely involved with that.
[10:08] SPEAKER_01: As well, actually, I was not trained in toastmasters.
[10:12] SPEAKER_01: Having said that, I think it's a great platform
[10:15] SPEAKER_01: for people to start.
[10:16] SPEAKER_01: And somebody asked me to join them.
[10:18] SPEAKER_01: And we have opened, in Montreal, a toastmaster,
[10:21] SPEAKER_01: there are specific foreign entrepreneurs.
[10:24] SPEAKER_01: And that was fantastic.
[10:27] SPEAKER_00: That is wonderful.
[10:28] SPEAKER_00: And a lot of benefit, I think, comes from learning
[10:31] SPEAKER_00: the body and the cues and everything
[10:34] SPEAKER_00: that it's not just about having a great presentation.
[10:37] SPEAKER_00: It's also being at the body language speaks a lot.
[10:42] SPEAKER_01: That's correct, because investors and people
[10:45] SPEAKER_01: do not invest necessarily just in your business.
[10:48] SPEAKER_01: They invest in you.
[10:49] SPEAKER_01: Then invest and be able to be, do they
[10:52] SPEAKER_01: see that you're open to get their feedback?
[10:56] SPEAKER_01: Do they see that your open will be good with clients?
[11:00] SPEAKER_01: Do they see you have the potential to be driven
[11:04] SPEAKER_01: and to make this going?
[11:06] SPEAKER_01: Yes, they're looking at the numbers.
[11:08] SPEAKER_01: They're looking at scalability of the business.
[11:11] SPEAKER_01: They're looking at the product.
[11:12] SPEAKER_01: But they also very much looking at you as a person.
[11:17] SPEAKER_00: OK, so are you mourning or a night person?
[11:21] SPEAKER_00: That's such a hard question.
[11:23] SPEAKER_00: A little bit of a change of the subject, I guess.
[11:26] SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's such a hard question, because I'm either
[11:30] SPEAKER_01: early morning person, very early.
[11:32] SPEAKER_01: I like the 5, 30 AM or night.
[11:38] SPEAKER_01: For me, the hardest part of the day
[11:40] SPEAKER_01: is this afternoon time, which was always the hardest for me.
[11:44] SPEAKER_01: So if I wake up really early, it's great.
[11:49] SPEAKER_01: And I'm very productive very early in the morning
[11:51] SPEAKER_01: or productive later on in the evening towards the night.
[11:55] SPEAKER_00: Is that where your best ideas come either morning or night?
[12:00] SPEAKER_01: I think creativity is something that is hard to quantify.
[12:04] SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it will be, if I take an afternoon walk,
[12:08] SPEAKER_01: my ideas can come there.
[12:10] SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it can be early in the morning
[12:12] SPEAKER_01: when your brain is not fully active, right?
[12:15] SPEAKER_01: There's no specific time where my best ideas come.
[12:18] SPEAKER_01: I think keeping yourself in the mindset
[12:20] SPEAKER_01: that you're open for ideas to come to you
[12:23] SPEAKER_01: is more important than looking for them.
[12:25] SPEAKER_01: And then they just come to you in different times.
[12:28] SPEAKER_01: For example, I did a project for COVID-19
[12:30] SPEAKER_01: to help spread positivity and inspiration,
[12:34] SPEAKER_01: which is Project 60 Tips and 60 Minutes,
[12:36] SPEAKER_01: hashtag 1 Minute Tip.
[12:37] SPEAKER_01: I've seen that.
[12:38] SPEAKER_01: Yes.
[12:39] SPEAKER_01: Great job on that.
[12:40] SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
[12:40] SPEAKER_01: And that specific idea came really early in the morning.
[12:44] SPEAKER_01: I was literally, I was thinking, how can I help?
[12:48] SPEAKER_01: And I walk up and I was sitting on my bed
[12:52] SPEAKER_01: and I looked at my husband and then just came
[12:54] SPEAKER_01: and I said, 60 tips and 60 minutes, what do you think?
[12:57] SPEAKER_01: So it sounds good.
[12:58] SPEAKER_01: And I just ran with it and in two weeks we wrapped it up.
[13:01] SPEAKER_01: But I think you need to be open.
[13:03] SPEAKER_01: You need to put the right questions out
[13:05] SPEAKER_01: because if you're not asking the right questions,
[13:08] SPEAKER_01: that's where you sabotaging yourself.
[13:09] SPEAKER_01: So if you're asking, how can I do this?
[13:13] SPEAKER_01: What are the tools?
[13:14] SPEAKER_01: Or you're asking open and the questions
[13:16] SPEAKER_01: that are positive and empowering for the information
[13:20] SPEAKER_01: to flow through you, things will come
[13:22] SPEAKER_01: even when you're not expecting it.
[13:25] SPEAKER_00: You're so right.
[13:26] SPEAKER_00: And now that you're speaking about that,
[13:29] SPEAKER_00: what I often do as well is I'll ask a question,
[13:33] SPEAKER_00: I'll make myself open to whatever the answer is
[13:36] SPEAKER_00: and then I'll sleep on it.
[13:38] SPEAKER_00: And the answer may come the next day.
[13:41] SPEAKER_00: It may come two days later,
[13:42] SPEAKER_00: but you sort of need to be in an open frame of mind
[13:46] SPEAKER_00: to receive the information or the ideas.
[13:51] SPEAKER_01: That's right.
[13:52] SPEAKER_01: And my best business collaborations happen like that
[13:56] SPEAKER_01: because what happens when you open
[13:58] SPEAKER_01: and you're asked, so you ask the right question.
[14:01] SPEAKER_01: And then you're open.
[14:02] SPEAKER_01: What happens is you see a opportunity more clearly.
[14:05] SPEAKER_01: So it can be an example,
[14:07] SPEAKER_01: one of the business virtual connection was more like that.
[14:10] SPEAKER_01: Somebody sent me a text,
[14:12] SPEAKER_01: oh, I'm thinking about a new project
[14:14] SPEAKER_01: and I just ask her what's that project.
[14:16] SPEAKER_01: And then she's told me about the project
[14:18] SPEAKER_01: and she asked me if I want to partner up with her.
[14:20] SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh, okay, yes.
[14:22] SPEAKER_01: So I was open to it, but if I would be very narrow
[14:26] SPEAKER_01: and very close, I would just look at this text
[14:28] SPEAKER_01: and like, oh, great, good luck, great, right.
[14:31] SPEAKER_01: Now it is being open and seeing those things
[14:35] SPEAKER_01: because if you're not, your vision is narrow.
[14:37] SPEAKER_01: You're only focused on one outcome.
[14:39] SPEAKER_01: You're only wanting one result.
[14:41] SPEAKER_01: There may be something even better coming your way.
[14:44] SPEAKER_00: You're missing all the opportunities
[14:45] SPEAKER_00: along the sidelines, I guess.
[14:48] SPEAKER_01: That's right.
[14:49] SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about the vision you have
[14:50] SPEAKER_00: for your business, for kinetics.
[14:52] SPEAKER_00: Where do you see your business in the next two to five years?
[14:56] SPEAKER_00: And if you want to address a little bit of what's happening
[14:58] SPEAKER_00: currently with the COVID situation,
[15:00] SPEAKER_00: has it been busier for you?
[15:03] SPEAKER_00: How are you handling it?
[15:04] SPEAKER_00: Mentally, physically.
[15:07] SPEAKER_01: It's very interesting time right now, right?
[15:09] SPEAKER_01: Because at kinetics, the main work we did
[15:12] SPEAKER_01: was working with teams.
[15:15] SPEAKER_01: So we had keynote presentation book.
[15:17] SPEAKER_01: We had teams and great corporations
[15:20] SPEAKER_01: that we were supposed to train for a day,
[15:22] SPEAKER_01: for two, for three in the company.
[15:24] SPEAKER_01: And that's COVID hit.
[15:26] SPEAKER_01: All of that was canceled.
[15:28] SPEAKER_01: And we were thinking, what can we do
[15:30] SPEAKER_01: and what we can pivot?
[15:32] SPEAKER_01: And things came to us, to be honest.
[15:35] SPEAKER_01: I'm more busy than I think I was before
[15:38] SPEAKER_01: because people need to understand
[15:41] SPEAKER_01: how the emotion functions.
[15:43] SPEAKER_01: They asked me, how did you set up your office?
[15:47] SPEAKER_01: They say, what's the difference of nonverbal
[15:50] SPEAKER_01: face-to-face versus over the computer?
[15:53] SPEAKER_01: And those are really important discussions to have.
[15:57] SPEAKER_01: And so with that, there's virtual etiquettes
[16:00] SPEAKER_01: should you stay, right?
[16:02] SPEAKER_01: So as every business web pivoting,
[16:04] SPEAKER_01: it's really important to stay in the positive mindset
[16:06] SPEAKER_01: because innovation and inspiration
[16:08] SPEAKER_01: does not live at the same body and the same mindset as fear.
[16:13] SPEAKER_01: So it's important to stay positive
[16:15] SPEAKER_01: and with that, things just will happen
[16:18] SPEAKER_01: in a sense of, they're not just happening from the skies,
[16:21] SPEAKER_01: but it will happen in a sense of you'll be open to pivot
[16:24] SPEAKER_01: and you'll be open to see how does it look.
[16:27] SPEAKER_01: And for us, the way it looks at Kinesics specifically
[16:30] SPEAKER_01: is that we actually pivoting more online,
[16:34] SPEAKER_01: which is great for me because then I can also focus
[16:37] SPEAKER_01: even more on my other businesses that I have.
[16:40] SPEAKER_00: That's great, wonderful.
[16:42] SPEAKER_00: What has been one of the greatest challenges
[16:44] SPEAKER_00: that you faced in, and I know you have several businesses,
[16:48] SPEAKER_00: but I'll specifically say in Kinesics.
[16:51] SPEAKER_01: I think in different stages, you have different challenges.
[16:56] SPEAKER_01: I think my first challenge was that I live in a society
[17:01] SPEAKER_01: that really puts education really higher.
[17:07] SPEAKER_01: And so a new company that is also an education company
[17:13] SPEAKER_01: but being founded by somebody that never had
[17:16] SPEAKER_01: a official degree, that's was a little bit hard
[17:21] SPEAKER_01: and that's a challenge where I had to think,
[17:23] SPEAKER_01: how can I then make sure that people understand
[17:26] SPEAKER_01: that there is credibility behind it?
[17:29] SPEAKER_01: And I know what I'm talking about.
[17:31] SPEAKER_01: And instead of looking for, you know,
[17:34] SPEAKER_01: having a master's or having some title,
[17:38] SPEAKER_01: other ways to bring that credibility.
[17:41] SPEAKER_01: And so that's was my challenge when I started.
[17:43] SPEAKER_01: And then there's scaling challenges, right?
[17:46] SPEAKER_01: Of how do you scale what tech are you using
[17:48] SPEAKER_01: for your business, platforms online?
[17:52] SPEAKER_01: So that's also another challenge that I have.
[17:54] SPEAKER_01: I had to learn a lot about tech.
[17:57] SPEAKER_01: And then our challenge I had is finding the right mentors.
[18:01] SPEAKER_01: And I think there are mentors there,
[18:03] SPEAKER_01: but the right mentors with the similar mindset,
[18:06] SPEAKER_01: that was a little bit harder for me to find.
[18:09] SPEAKER_01: Because I had mentors that we say,
[18:11] SPEAKER_01: you know, do call calling.
[18:12] SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, not call calling.
[18:15] SPEAKER_01: It's maybe great to some, but for me, it was not.
[18:19] SPEAKER_01: There was other ways.
[18:20] SPEAKER_01: And so finding not just the mentors are great.
[18:23] SPEAKER_01: And he was a fantastic mentor as many other ways,
[18:26] SPEAKER_01: but finding the right mentor that you align
[18:31] SPEAKER_01: with the right mindset and you understand each other
[18:34] SPEAKER_01: on that level, it's hard.
[18:37] SPEAKER_00: I agree.
[18:38] SPEAKER_00: And I agree, especially with the mentor.
[18:41] SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's mentors that are graciously give back time
[18:44] SPEAKER_00: to the community.
[18:46] SPEAKER_00: But finding the mentor that's, as you said,
[18:49] SPEAKER_00: on the same frequency as you and sees where you are going
[18:54] SPEAKER_00: in your vision of the business,
[18:55] SPEAKER_00: which is not called calling in your case,
[18:57] SPEAKER_00: it's more of a human approach, a relationship building,
[19:01] SPEAKER_00: is the key.
[19:03] SPEAKER_00: And once I think you surround yourself with team players
[19:06] SPEAKER_00: that are on the same level, you're sort of playing as a team.
[19:09] SPEAKER_00: And it's much easier to scale your business at that point
[19:14] SPEAKER_00: because you have a good comfort
[19:16] SPEAKER_00: and you have great mentors.
[19:19] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[19:19] SPEAKER_01: So I never really had a mentor for say,
[19:22] SPEAKER_01: I never had a specific person that is a mentor
[19:26] SPEAKER_01: that helped my business grow.
[19:28] SPEAKER_01: But what I did do is when I would be networking
[19:33] SPEAKER_01: or when I meet a certain individuals,
[19:35] SPEAKER_01: and I would see a person that I believed
[19:37] SPEAKER_01: or skills that I should learn from that person,
[19:40] SPEAKER_01: I would just attach myself to them.
[19:43] SPEAKER_01: That's great.
[19:45] SPEAKER_01: And I would be like, okay, we're friends now.
[19:48] SPEAKER_01: And I need to learn from you.
[19:49] SPEAKER_01: And that's it.
[19:50] SPEAKER_01: And I will just attach myself to them
[19:53] SPEAKER_01: and we would build relationships
[19:54] SPEAKER_01: but it was not more of a mentorship.
[19:56] SPEAKER_01: It was kind of we became friends, right?
[20:00] SPEAKER_01: In a way, we would help each other.
[20:03] SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I would just hook myself onto that person
[20:06] SPEAKER_01: literally to me.
[20:08] SPEAKER_01: I did, that's kind of my mindset.
[20:10] SPEAKER_01: I saw something that I skill that I would love to get
[20:13] SPEAKER_01: or something information that I want to learn.
[20:15] SPEAKER_01: And I would just go and hang out with them
[20:18] SPEAKER_01: and just listen and see what they say
[20:20] SPEAKER_01: and how they say things.
[20:21] SPEAKER_01: And I'll just try to observe as much as I can.
[20:24] SPEAKER_00: That's a great idea and great piece of advice.
[20:26] SPEAKER_00: So making friends or connecting with people
[20:29] SPEAKER_00: that have different skill sets than you,
[20:32] SPEAKER_00: that you can learn from.
[20:33] SPEAKER_01: All very important.
[20:35] SPEAKER_01: Never just be in a room with people
[20:37] SPEAKER_01: with the same skills as you.
[20:39] SPEAKER_01: Because you won't grow.
[20:40] SPEAKER_01: You will never grow like that.
[20:41] SPEAKER_01: If you agree with somebody and they agree
[20:43] SPEAKER_01: with you, it's not going anywhere.
[20:46] SPEAKER_00: I love that.
[20:46] SPEAKER_00: That's great piece of advice actually.
[20:49] SPEAKER_00: What is the best piece of advice that you got?
[20:51] SPEAKER_00: Or the worst piece of advice
[20:52] SPEAKER_00: that you got when you were first starting your business?
[20:55] SPEAKER_00: Usually everybody offers advice.
[20:57] SPEAKER_00: Even family members will offer advice.
[21:00] SPEAKER_00: Friends will offer advice.
[21:01] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I guess the hardest,
[21:03] SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's worse advice or best advice.
[21:06] SPEAKER_01: I can't think necessarily right now,
[21:07] SPEAKER_01: best advice or worse advice.
[21:09] SPEAKER_01: But it was definitely hard for me
[21:13] SPEAKER_01: from the family perspective.
[21:15] SPEAKER_01: My mom, there were immigrants.
[21:17] SPEAKER_01: They wanted the best of me.
[21:19] SPEAKER_01: They wanted me to be a doctor.
[21:20] SPEAKER_01: Although I see blood on my face.
[21:23] SPEAKER_01: So it's not really going to work,
[21:25] SPEAKER_01: but you want to be a doctor, a lawyer.
[21:27] SPEAKER_01: That's in there as immigrants.
[21:29] SPEAKER_01: That's what they want for their kids.
[21:30] SPEAKER_01: They want their stability.
[21:32] SPEAKER_01: And they want them to be happy.
[21:34] SPEAKER_01: And in that, in their minds, it means stability.
[21:37] SPEAKER_01: That they don't need to worry how they worried.
[21:40] SPEAKER_01: And I always had that conflict
[21:43] SPEAKER_01: because I wasn't that child.
[21:46] SPEAKER_01: I wasn't that child.
[21:47] SPEAKER_01: There will be a doctor or a lawyer.
[21:49] SPEAKER_01: And my mom, I think,
[21:52] SPEAKER_01: till I was in my 30s,
[21:55] SPEAKER_01: she would tell me, okay,
[21:56] SPEAKER_01: would you go back to university?
[21:57] SPEAKER_01: Go back to university?
[21:58] SPEAKER_01: Go back to university?
[21:59] SPEAKER_01: And that was the hardest part.
[22:02] SPEAKER_01: But then the beauty of you following,
[22:05] SPEAKER_01: which you need to follow is that
[22:07] SPEAKER_01: I was actually hired by university to teach at McGill University.
[22:11] SPEAKER_01: I was teaching and not just volunteering.
[22:14] SPEAKER_01: I was paid to teach at McGill University.
[22:17] SPEAKER_01: And so when that happened, I called my mom.
[22:21] SPEAKER_01: And that's, I think, was my highest.
[22:23] SPEAKER_01: I, you know, for me, that's was my highest.
[22:26] SPEAKER_01: It is, I called her and I said, mom, I love you,
[22:30] SPEAKER_01: but I did never went to university,
[22:33] SPEAKER_01: but I taught at university.
[22:34] SPEAKER_01: So stop telling me to go to university.
[22:40] SPEAKER_01: You know?
[22:41] SPEAKER_01: And what did she have to say to that?
[22:43] SPEAKER_01: So she's, you know, from then,
[22:45] SPEAKER_01: she kind of, you know, the conversations about
[22:48] SPEAKER_01: go back to university relaxed.
[22:50] SPEAKER_01: And she started to see what is that I'm doing
[22:54] SPEAKER_01: and that I can sustain myself, that I can't do that.
[22:57] SPEAKER_01: And I can't do that.
[22:58] SPEAKER_01: And, you know, she doesn't need to worry for me as much as she did
[23:03] SPEAKER_01: that I'm okay because, again,
[23:06] SPEAKER_01: she was not doing it from the evil, right?
[23:08] SPEAKER_01: She was doing it because as immigrants,
[23:11] SPEAKER_01: it was really hard for them.
[23:12] SPEAKER_01: And they, she didn't want me to have the same experience.
[23:15] SPEAKER_01: But then when I, that happened,
[23:18] SPEAKER_01: she was able to relax and see, you know, what I'm okay.
[23:21] SPEAKER_01: And then that's the beauty of that, right?
[23:23] SPEAKER_01: So I think that's was the hardest part,
[23:25] SPEAKER_01: but also the same time kind of the highlight.
[23:29] SPEAKER_00: That's one, and she must be very proud of you.
[23:32] SPEAKER_00: You do so well.
[23:33] SPEAKER_00: And you've been recently nominated for RBC's
[23:36] SPEAKER_00: Women of the Year Award.
[23:39] SPEAKER_01: That's right.
[23:40] SPEAKER_01: I was, I received an award from the,
[23:43] SPEAKER_01: the Jewish Chamber of Commons a few years ago
[23:45] SPEAKER_01: as an entrepreneur of the year.
[23:47] SPEAKER_01: And now I'm nominated for this award as well.
[23:51] SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
[23:51] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm very grateful.
[23:54] SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna now switch to something a little bit more fun.
[23:57] SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be a rapid fire questions.
[23:59] SPEAKER_00: You can just tell me the first thing that comes to your mind.
[24:02] SPEAKER_00: Okay.
[24:03] SPEAKER_00: You don't have to think too much about it.
[24:06] SPEAKER_00: If you weren't doing what you're doing right now,
[24:07] SPEAKER_00: what would you be doing?
[24:09] SPEAKER_00: Connecting people.
[24:11] SPEAKER_00: Love it.
[24:12] SPEAKER_00: Is there a book that you're currently reading
[24:14] SPEAKER_00: or that you could recommend
[24:16] SPEAKER_00: or if not a book, a podcast or something that, you know,
[24:20] SPEAKER_00: fills your mind with more knowledge?
[24:23] SPEAKER_01: Keep constantly learning online offline.
[24:26] SPEAKER_01: There's no one specific thing.
[24:28] SPEAKER_01: I always look for information.
[24:31] SPEAKER_01: That they was learning about partnership agreements
[24:34] SPEAKER_01: and then like that.
[24:36] SPEAKER_01: And then at the same time,
[24:37] SPEAKER_01: I'm learning more about nonverbal and business scaling.
[24:41] SPEAKER_01: So always learn different things, not one thing.
[24:44] SPEAKER_01: Learn different things.
[24:45] SPEAKER_00: Wonderful.
[24:47] SPEAKER_00: And we already asked you if you're mourning or a night person.
[24:50] SPEAKER_00: So we know that you're sort of mourning at night
[24:53] SPEAKER_00: the ideas come at any point.
[24:56] SPEAKER_01: Yes, mourning or night best time to find me
[24:58] SPEAKER_01: early in the morning or a night midday.
[25:02] SPEAKER_01: It's, I can work, but it's much harder on me.
[25:05] SPEAKER_00: Maybe a strong Turkish coffee.
[25:08] SPEAKER_00: Yes.
[25:09] SPEAKER_00: Very good.
[25:11] SPEAKER_00: And is there anything that's keeping you up at night these days?
[25:15] SPEAKER_01: No, I sleep well.
[25:17] SPEAKER_00: That is awesome.
[25:18] SPEAKER_00: You have to tell me your secret.
[25:20] SPEAKER_00: And if you had to pick one word to describe yourself,
[25:25] SPEAKER_00: what would it be and why?
[25:27] SPEAKER_01: A lover.
[25:28] SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
[25:29] SPEAKER_01: There's two sides to me.
[25:31] SPEAKER_01: And the heart I'm reconnecting our lover
[25:33] SPEAKER_01: and somebody did the archetype test on me.
[25:36] SPEAKER_01: And that's what came out.
[25:37] SPEAKER_01: I told about connecting and caring.
[25:39] SPEAKER_01: And for me, connecting with people and have this
[25:44] SPEAKER_01: is the most important, the most valuable thing.
[25:47] SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't matter how strong or how business savvy you are.
[25:53] SPEAKER_01: And yes, sometimes you need to be harsh.
[25:55] SPEAKER_01: And sometimes you need to be very like this and all of that.
[25:59] SPEAKER_01: But in the end, the core has to stay authentic to you.
[26:02] SPEAKER_01: And for me, my authenticity is connecting
[26:05] SPEAKER_01: and being a lover.
[26:07] SPEAKER_01: I care and all of that.
[26:09] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[26:09] SPEAKER_00: I love that.
[26:10] SPEAKER_00: I've never had anybody say that.
[26:13] SPEAKER_00: There's always a person.
[26:14] SPEAKER_00: That's yes.
[26:16] SPEAKER_00: And what's your favorite place in the world?
[26:19] SPEAKER_00: It can be your backyard.
[26:21] SPEAKER_00: It can be Canada.
[26:23] SPEAKER_00: It can be anywhere, basically, in the world.
[26:26] SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm biased.
[26:27] SPEAKER_01: I'd love Israel to death.
[26:28] SPEAKER_01: I think there's so much to that country.
[26:30] SPEAKER_01: I think innovation, nature.
[26:32] SPEAKER_01: Even how they dealing with COVID-19.
[26:34] SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of great stuff.
[26:35] SPEAKER_01: I saw I'm biased for that country.
[26:37] SPEAKER_01: But if it's not that country, my favorite place in the world
[26:41] SPEAKER_01: will be the water.
[26:42] SPEAKER_01: Any place that has greenery and water, I'm happy.
[26:47] SPEAKER_00: I'm the same way.
[26:48] SPEAKER_00: I like the water.
[26:50] SPEAKER_00: I like the ocean.
[26:51] SPEAKER_00: It just brings calmness to me.
[26:53] SPEAKER_00: Even though it's moving and maybe wavy
[26:55] SPEAKER_00: and what it to me brings calmness.
[26:57] SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
[26:58] SPEAKER_00: And just going back to you mentioned Israel.
[27:01] SPEAKER_00: I know that Fiverr, which is one of the big platforms,
[27:05] SPEAKER_00: is from Israel as well.
[27:07] SPEAKER_00: So they're really doing well.
[27:10] SPEAKER_00: And ways and many others.
[27:12] SPEAKER_00: It's amazing, some of the companies
[27:15] SPEAKER_00: that have come out from Israel.
[27:17] SPEAKER_01: Yes.
[27:18] SPEAKER_01: And cyber security and medicine.
[27:20] SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of great.
[27:22] SPEAKER_01: And I wish more people will look at this country,
[27:25] SPEAKER_01: not from a political point of view,
[27:27] SPEAKER_01: but also what they brought to the world.
[27:29] SPEAKER_01: Yes.
[27:30] SPEAKER_00: And the last question is, there's
[27:32] SPEAKER_00: a small tropical island in the middle of the ocean
[27:35] SPEAKER_00: with only one phone booth and no internet.
[27:39] SPEAKER_00: We drop you off there with no technology at all.
[27:42] SPEAKER_00: At any time, you can use the phone
[27:44] SPEAKER_00: booth on the island to call the boat to come and pick you up.
[27:47] SPEAKER_00: How long would you last before making the phone call?
[27:51] SPEAKER_00: And what would you do until then, Angela?
[27:54] SPEAKER_01: It's a hard question because it kind of relates to our time
[27:57] SPEAKER_01: now because we can go out.
[27:59] SPEAKER_01: We cannot see people, but we have this.
[28:01] SPEAKER_01: I'm very thankful for that.
[28:03] SPEAKER_01: I think I would last about maybe two months.
[28:07] SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
[28:08] SPEAKER_00: That's a long time.
[28:09] SPEAKER_00: That's actually great.
[28:10] SPEAKER_01: But the reason I would last two months
[28:11] SPEAKER_01: is I think because I would be so focused on creating
[28:16] SPEAKER_01: and doing things that I cannot do when I'm always
[28:20] SPEAKER_01: surrounded with calls and people.
[28:22] SPEAKER_01: And so I would take that time, but the conscious
[28:27] SPEAKER_01: is get away to create more.
[28:30] SPEAKER_01: So when you come back, things are with COVID-19.
[28:32] SPEAKER_01: So we are right now in the state that on the lockdown.
[28:36] SPEAKER_01: So it is being on the line.
[28:37] SPEAKER_01: So what do you do at that time?
[28:39] SPEAKER_01: I think I'll be using it very similarly of saying, OK,
[28:42] SPEAKER_01: this is my time.
[28:43] SPEAKER_01: I can then take the time to connect, reconnect with myself
[28:48] SPEAKER_01: and my purpose and who I am.
[28:50] SPEAKER_01: And then start creating from that place
[28:52] SPEAKER_01: and creating new things or thinking how I can create
[28:57] SPEAKER_01: and scale what I already have.
[29:00] SPEAKER_01: So I'm coming back stronger.
[29:02] SPEAKER_00: OK.
[29:03] SPEAKER_00: And how can our listeners and viewers
[29:05] SPEAKER_00: found you on social media to connect with you
[29:09] SPEAKER_00: and to perhaps visit Kinesik's website as well?
[29:14] SPEAKER_01: Yes.
[29:15] SPEAKER_01: So easily to find me on LinkedIn is by name, Angela Podolsky,
[29:19] SPEAKER_01: the SinkSync on Instagram.
[29:21] SPEAKER_01: It's Angela Podolsky, Facebook.
[29:23] SPEAKER_01: And the business page is Kinesik.
[29:26] SPEAKER_01: So kinesik.com.
[29:28] SPEAKER_01: That's the website.
[29:30] SPEAKER_00: And that's about it.
[29:32] SPEAKER_00: Wonderful.
[29:33] SPEAKER_00: Angela, thank you so much for your time today.
[29:36] SPEAKER_00: It's been a great pleasure.
[29:38] SPEAKER_00: And I really love hearing about your business
[29:41] SPEAKER_00: and about you as well.
[29:43] SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
[29:44] SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
[29:45] SPEAKER_00: I'm Angela S.S.
[29:46] SPEAKER_00: You are a Toronto's host for Canada's podcast.
[29:49] SPEAKER_00: Listen, subscribe to all of our channels
[29:51] SPEAKER_00: for the latest and to the know on news.
