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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_00: Hi, this is Celine Williams hosting for Montereo for Canada's podcast.
[00:10] SPEAKER_00: Today I'm joined by two guests, Adam Robb, founder of Howell
[00:13] SPEAKER_00: and Sean Appetal, associate VP of citizenship at cooperators.
[00:18] SPEAKER_00: Thank you both for being here.
[00:21] SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Thomas.
[00:23] SPEAKER_00: I'm excited.
[00:24] SPEAKER_00: First of all, I love when I have two guests on the show.
[00:25] SPEAKER_00: So full disclosure, this is always a fun conversation
[00:29] SPEAKER_00: with those multiple people.
[00:30] SPEAKER_00: I will fully acknowledge my bias.
[00:33] SPEAKER_00: But I am going to kind of start with each of you to get a little bit of a sense of who you are.
[00:38] SPEAKER_00: So Adam, can you tell us a little bit about what Howell is and where it came from,
[00:47] SPEAKER_00: you know, why you started the organization, just kind of gives a little bit of the background?
[00:51] SPEAKER_03: Sure.
[00:52] SPEAKER_03: So Howell is meant to provide transformational experiences for young adults
[00:58] SPEAKER_03: so that they can better find their half-room life, their voice, hear their own voice.
[01:03] SPEAKER_03: And to really understand where that comes from is to understand my personal background,
[01:09] SPEAKER_03: which is coming out of 15 years of high school teaching and Alberta here.
[01:16] SPEAKER_03: And watching many, many students go off with little to no sense of themselves,
[01:21] SPEAKER_03: just because of the way that education was done to them,
[01:26] SPEAKER_03: rather than they experienced learning.
[01:29] SPEAKER_03: And so I felt that in Canada, we have this missing piece between the high school age
[01:36] SPEAKER_03: and post-secondary to help people really figure out which direction they want to go.
[01:42] SPEAKER_03: And when I started looking into this topic more and more,
[01:47] SPEAKER_03: I found the stats that sort of aligned with what I was anecdotally seeing from my own students
[01:53] SPEAKER_03: and the students in the schools where I worked.
[01:56] SPEAKER_03: And that's the dropout rate or switch program rate in Canada after one year of post-secondary is 60%.
[02:04] SPEAKER_03: And I think that is reflective of the fact that in school,
[02:10] SPEAKER_03: we aren't doing enough in the education system, we aren't doing enough to provide experiences
[02:16] SPEAKER_03: so that people know their own abilities and know what safe risk taking looks like.
[02:23] SPEAKER_03: And all these real life lessons that you learn outside of school,
[02:27] SPEAKER_03: I always felt should be built into school.
[02:30] SPEAKER_03: And so this was the motivation was, I'm going to give that structure that one other step
[02:36] SPEAKER_03: along this pathway of learning so that people can better know themselves
[02:40] SPEAKER_03: and make better choices going forward.
[02:43] SPEAKER_03: And I think the side effects of that are the implications are building better community members
[02:48] SPEAKER_03: because when somebody is on the right track in life doing what they really love,
[02:52] SPEAKER_03: they're more likely to contribute to their community, they're more likely to be a good family member
[02:57] SPEAKER_03: and there's so many other implications.
[03:00] SPEAKER_03: And so that's a long answer, but how is this like, is this attempt to try and provide that
[03:09] SPEAKER_03: for young adults in Canada, give them this set of experiences that's going to really allow them
[03:17] SPEAKER_03: to test themselves, hear their own voice, and then structure a pathway forward for themselves?
[03:27] SPEAKER_00: So first off, good for you for being a high school teacher for that long
[03:31] SPEAKER_00: because I can only imagine how harrowing that was in moments, and I love teenagers.
[03:37] SPEAKER_00: But as you were speaking, it's really interesting because immediately what came up for me is I remember a thousand years ago
[03:44] SPEAKER_00: when I was in high school, the feeling the pressure to make a choice of what my future would be
[03:50] SPEAKER_00: when I was 15 or 16 years old, I had barely a sense of who I was or what I liked.
[03:57] SPEAKER_00: Everything was the influence of the people around me and I was like, oh, I'm going to be a doctor
[04:02] SPEAKER_00: because that was the thing that was the thing, right?
[04:04] SPEAKER_00: That was clearly I did not do that.
[04:07] SPEAKER_00: That was not my path.
[04:09] SPEAKER_00: But at that age, I didn't know what the options were.
[04:14] SPEAKER_00: I didn't even understand what some of the options were.
[04:18] SPEAKER_00: And so I'm curious how...
[04:26] SPEAKER_00: How kind of...
[04:29] SPEAKER_00: I don't know if the... I don't know if this... I don't want to say structure, but how...
[04:33] SPEAKER_00: It sounds like it kind of addresses a lot of that, right?
[04:35] SPEAKER_00: Like here's time to get to know yourself.
[04:38] SPEAKER_00: How are some of the ways that it does that?
[04:39] SPEAKER_00: What does this look like for someone who's thinking, I have some teenage kids that this might be interesting for at some point?
[04:47] SPEAKER_03: Sure.
[04:47] SPEAKER_03: And I'll segue off of the point that you just made and that young people, same as us, we just don't know what we don't know.
[04:55] SPEAKER_03: And if you were to pull grade 12s on what career they thought they were going to follow, it would probably fall into one of about seven categories.
[05:04] SPEAKER_03: It would be like playmobile characters of nurse, doctor, fireman, teacher.
[05:11] SPEAKER_03: It's just the things that they know, right?
[05:13] SPEAKER_03: And yet everybody, when you have these conversations, and I've been having these conversations, so many of them, we all understand that that pathway is not linear, that finding your way and that I'm doing a job now that I didn't even know existed when I was in high school stressing about these courses.
[05:38] SPEAKER_03: And we're not really preparing people for that.
[05:43] SPEAKER_03: You know, the resilience it takes to find your way.
[05:48] SPEAKER_03: And so I guess the program that we create, and we run like short programs, exploration programs, but also a longer program is this idea of, you're going to meet a whole bunch of people who are really passionate about what they do in different areas.
[06:06] SPEAKER_03: So how is known, prescriptive, we're not trying to send people into any particular industry, but we're trying to introduce them to really passionate community members, whether they're entrepreneurs, scientists, whether they're just, not just by community artists, whether they're, they are in the medical field or social services.
[06:27] SPEAKER_03: And to hear their stories, but also get a little bit of experience, trying something with, with these people and, and walking your day in their shoes, to feel what that's like.
[06:38] SPEAKER_03: And so we allow youth to explore this in a safe environment. There's no past, fail, this new over arching pressure over top of them to just go out there and learn for the sake of learning.
[06:51] SPEAKER_03: And in the end, they are able so far to be able to be like, I want to be like, Vicki, I want to be like John, who's, who's studying, who's a busy bear conservation and going out in the field.
[07:05] SPEAKER_03: And that's, that's what I want to do. I just never knew that existed. And so how can I get on a path towards that?
[07:11] SPEAKER_03: But at the same time, there's, you know, these crippling, crippling, I can't emphasize this enough, especially being heightened by the last few years of, of COVID education and learning, the mental health aspects of, that are fit, that youth are facing right now are just unlike anything I've seen in my career.
[07:35] SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's in a whole another realm. And so providing a little bit of a step back for many youth right now as counterintuitive as that sounds is precisely what they need.
[07:50] SPEAKER_03: And they may not even be able to articulate that right now. But if, you know, there's people probably listening, whose son or daughter is facing some major challenges.
[08:01] SPEAKER_03: And we all we want is for our kids to be happy, you know, and the successful career is part of that.
[08:10] SPEAKER_03: But sometimes it's taking a good look at where they are and putting them in a position where they can receive support and learn more about themselves and, and thus dealing with some of these mental health aspects of anxiety and, and on the lack of knowledge about themselves and what they're capable of.
[08:30] SPEAKER_03: And so putting them in that environment, getting them to the top of the mountain, you know, not really a metaphor because we do take them to the tops of mountains can really, really change their perspective.
[08:41] SPEAKER_03: But also hearing other used stories about their own background, their own challenges. And we bring youth from every background imaginable and throw them all together.
[08:53] SPEAKER_03: That is the most enlightening thing for them. They all of a sudden realize they're not alone in these challenges.
[09:01] SPEAKER_03: They've created a community amongst this group of people from all over the place. And, and it just gives them that strength to go forward in life.
[09:11] SPEAKER_03: They've kind of discovered a pathway, but they've also discovered a community of people who will be behind them as they walk forward.
[09:21] SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious because you talked about some of the challenges that, and shall and I promise I will get to you in a minute, that you talked about some of the challenges that the youth are facing.
[09:33] SPEAKER_00: What, what, what were some of the challenges? What was the experience for you transitioning from a high school teacher to running a business?
[09:39] SPEAKER_00: Because that is a whole set of challenges in and of itself as I'm sure anyone who's done it will test.
[09:50] SPEAKER_03: Yes. And Shana always has a good laugh about this, but I started when I stepped away from my teaching career and sat down September 1st of 2021 to look at whether I could help to create a program.
[10:07] SPEAKER_03: I literally typed in to Google like how to start a new program. And like I was, I had zero knowledge of what it took to start a new organization, a new business or a nonprofit.
[10:22] SPEAKER_03: And I think when I was telling my students what I was going to do when I was stepping away, because I worked with them on real community projects.
[10:31] SPEAKER_03: They had a good laugh and they were pointing the finger at me and they said, now you're, now you're going to know how it feels to step out there into the unknown and, and have to talk to experts and, and research and figure out which direction and sort of like narrow down what you're trying to do and then work on that in tangible steps.
[10:52] SPEAKER_03: That's what I was really good at teaching, but then like, you know, doing it myself was a real, real challenge. And it's been a wild ride. It's been very fast. But I have made it a point, a step one to surround myself with the best people possible.
[11:11] SPEAKER_03: Supportive people, but also people with different skill sets than myself and mentors and all sorts of things. So my network is, is quite big and I rely on that entirely, including Shana, of course.
[11:23] SPEAKER_00: It's astonishing how often when speaking with entrepreneurs, the community and the support comes up as being incredibly important to any version of whatever their version of successes.
[11:37] SPEAKER_00: So I love that you brought, I love that you brought that up. I'm wondering what was it that you said the September 1st of 2021 you sat down and you were like, this is what I'm going to do. What triggered that? Where did that come from? What was that? This is the change for me.
[11:54] SPEAKER_03: Sure. Well, I definitely touched on the fact already of watching students go out into the building. So 15 years of that. And then keeping track of many of my students in the challenges that they were facing, even if they went through and got a degree or a diploma already and then getting out into the field and being like, well, no, this is not what I envisioned my life to be like.
[12:21] SPEAKER_03: And then they might, you know, suffer some real life challenges as a result of that. There's a whole spectrum of youth out there trying to find their way. And there's not much support available to them, even in post-secondary where we assume they're going to get this guidance and support and direction from all accounts. It's not there.
[12:43] SPEAKER_03: It's more transactional in nature in a post-secondary setting with the exception of a few cases. And so wanting to give more support after the age of 17 or 18, which when you think about it, obviously people need more support than that.
[12:59] SPEAKER_03: So the other big motivation was, I've been thinking about this for many years, talking about it and probably being really annoying to my friends and family about this idea as many, I'm sure entrepreneurs have done.
[13:15] SPEAKER_03: But it was my partner, for sure, Megan, who gave me the kick in the pants, who said, okay, you've been talking about this long enough. Now it's time to get out there and do this. And we figured out a financial plan where I could step away and try this.
[13:37] SPEAKER_03: And that was a huge, huge step away. So it was committing to having no income until I found income, which I'm sure many people can relate to.
[13:49] SPEAKER_03: But I think where it really boiled over was stepping back from my work as strangers to the sounds during the COVID learning period.
[14:00] SPEAKER_03: So when I was sent home, I'm usually very active in the school, non-stop working 18 hours a day sometimes, and then you're sent home and we're doing this online kind of learning.
[14:12] SPEAKER_03: And I'm not an online educator by any means. And it was just that second that room to breathe where I was able to recapture my thoughts and think of like, maybe it's time.
[14:25] SPEAKER_03: And I tell that story because I think that we underestimate that time to step back for a second of how powerful that can be.
[14:37] SPEAKER_03: And for you to have been on this trajectory of like doing essays and studying for math tests and doing everything that they think that they need to do to be successful.
[14:46] SPEAKER_03: Sometimes it's that step back to really gain clarity on what comes next.
[14:52] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely. And I think that's very important and insightful for everyone is that we tend to, you know, kids do it with school adults do it with job and work and whatever we just tend to kind of plow through.
[15:05] SPEAKER_00: What's the next thing? Elementary school, middle school, high school, college, university, job, you know, next job, next role, leadership, we just kind of plow through how often do we take a step back and go, is this, is this what I want to be doing or reflecting in any way?
[15:20] SPEAKER_00: So I think it's really, I appreciate you saying that because I think it's a really important note. Let's call it for anyone is listening that this, that that moment matters and taking that time matters.
[15:33] SPEAKER_03: Right. Sorry. One last thing is, yeah.
[15:36] SPEAKER_03: We were all anxiety, whether it was during COVID and lack of social situations, but, but also the overall anxiety of, you know, these massive societal issues around things like climate change that youth are feeling, but not really they have an understanding of what climate change is, but not really understand any understanding or way to apply themselves to actually creating solutions in any tangible way.
[16:03] SPEAKER_03: And that can be, that can be a key way you lose hope is when you feel like you have no way of creating action in your own life that aligns with your own pathway.
[16:12] SPEAKER_03: And that's obviously not yet a part of what the education system is. And then the second one, major one is truth and reconciliation and just this overwhelming news that year after year, we're kind of uncovering these stories.
[16:29] SPEAKER_03: You know, uncovering the truth of these stories and youth are feeling this and they don't know what to do about it.
[16:37] SPEAKER_03: They don't know what it means to reconcile. They don't have an opportunity to reconcile. So non-indigenous youth or indigenous youth.
[16:46] SPEAKER_03: Everyone wants to like move forward with this, but there's no opportunity and there's no like understanding of what that actually looks like.
[16:55] SPEAKER_03: And so I think that was the other motivating factor was maybe we create a program where they actually learn and have the opportunity to move forward on those topics in their own in their own journeys.
[17:07] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that. Thank you for I think that's an important addition. So thank you for adding that on for sure.
[17:14] SPEAKER_00: Shawna, I want to I have I want to ask you two questions. The first one is I'd love to know what the citizenship department is and what being an associate VP of citizenship means because that sounds fascinating.
[17:28] SPEAKER_00: And as part and parcel of that, can you tell us a little bit about what cooperators does and and you know what you're out there in the world putting into out there putting into the world. There we go.
[17:41] SPEAKER_01: Two are.
[17:42] SPEAKER_01: And there's so many things that Adam said that I could respond to and react to. So forgive me if I say a lot of the same words that he did because he did it so well.
[17:52] SPEAKER_01: So I first of all, I too wanted to be a doctor when I was in high school and I too did not become a doctor after high school.
[18:01] SPEAKER_01: I grew up late 80s graduated high school and that was what you did you did one of six things. So Adam to your point you're bang on.
[18:08] SPEAKER_01: And I think that my degrees are actually in biology and forestry and I spent many years in consulting and working in communities and working with people.
[18:18] SPEAKER_01: And I had the same kind of epiphany that about seven years ago I said I can't do this anymore. I can't run this race anymore. I can't work these hours anymore.
[18:26] SPEAKER_01: I need to be home. I need to be with my kids. I need to be doing good work in the world. So I had a major career change when I was in my early 40s.
[18:35] SPEAKER_01: And it was because it was driven by this desire to do good somewhere to help someone and to help myself as well, I think.
[18:47] SPEAKER_01: So what citizenship is how I ended up here at cooperators. We are a financial services provider. So we do insurance, we do investments, we do advice.
[18:57] SPEAKER_01: We work with people to help them plan for today and for their future. And we are as a cooperative, a little bit different. We don't have shareholders.
[19:07] SPEAKER_01: We don't have we're owned by our members. We have a different way of looking at the world. So it's a very long term view, both from a financial and a business perspective, but also in how we react and we relate to our communities.
[19:19] SPEAKER_01: So the work that I do, it's really about how we show up in our communities and in the society around us. And we really focus on empowering communities through investments, through volunteering and through like with Adam, those collaborative partnerships in ways that are sustainable, but also help us to support our business objectives.
[19:38] SPEAKER_01: And we are in a bit of a leadership position in Canada because we give about 5% of our income before taxes away every year.
[19:47] SPEAKER_01: We invest in the community, we invest in our members, we invest in our company, but 5% of that goes to nonprofits, charities, social enterprises and other co-ops to really build up and empower our communities.
[20:00] SPEAKER_01: And our team focuses on a few different areas, mental health for youth 18 to 25, an inclusive economy, which is really about employability and skills training and supports to get into good and sustainable jobs for underserved youth and people with mental health challenges and environmental resilience.
[20:20] SPEAKER_01: So helping people and communities to be more resilient to a change in climate, either through adapting to it or mitigating.
[20:27] SPEAKER_01: So there's so many overlaps between our vision of social impact and our purpose, our company's purpose, which is around financial security for Canadians and their communities.
[20:38] SPEAKER_01: So much of that overlap and really meshed when we talk to people like Adam and we see organizations, they're helping young people to navigate this incredibly difficult time.
[20:50] SPEAKER_01: And my job is to find these partnerships and to make them happen and to make them stick so that we keep our partnerships over the long term and we continue to do good work.
[21:00] SPEAKER_00: It's astonishing the difference that an organization can make when they're not, but this is forgive the language runs, but they're not quote beholden to shareholders or that anonymous wall street person where you have to hit this in a particular quarter when you have, you know, what cooperators has in terms of being able to design the work they're doing to be sustainable and to have a long term.
[21:30] SPEAKER_00: And so the third term view, not the three or four years. This is the CEOs impact that they're going to have and then they're out and someone new is in it really.
[21:37] SPEAKER_00: It sounds like it's incredibly different than a lot of the businesses that we think of at the, because cooperators, a big business, it's a big company.
[21:47] SPEAKER_00: So it's different than what we often think of as that's how big company works.
[21:52] SPEAKER_01: It is very much a culture and it's very much how we operate as a business. So from the CEO right on down, everybody understands the value of what we do that we're driven by cooperative values of autonomy and self help and equity and quality and democracy.
[22:12] SPEAKER_01: And I would hope that the majority of people that work for us feel the same way that we're driven by a different purpose.
[22:18] SPEAKER_01: We don't come in every day just to make the company money and to make our shareholders money. We make our business money.
[22:25] SPEAKER_01: Absolutely. We still have to be profitable to be successful. But my company being profitable means I get more money to put back into our community.
[22:32] SPEAKER_01: And that's an incredible driver to come to work every day. It's an incredible gift to be able to do.
[22:38] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely. It's very different than your company being profitable means that the some anonymous share stakeholder shareholder gets an additional dividend of what that's a very different driver at the end of the day.
[22:49] SPEAKER_00: It's a very different job.
[22:51] SPEAKER_00: I appreciate calling that out because we have a lot of misconceptions and old ideas when it comes to how businesses and leadership work.
[23:01] SPEAKER_00: And this is cooperators is clearly proving it wrong.
[23:08] SPEAKER_01: We've been around for 75 years. We were created to meet unmet needs and we continue to address them every day through products through services through our partnerships through how we support our employees.
[23:20] SPEAKER_01: Mental health is a huge driver for us internally as well as externally. We try to make things better for our people as well as for the communities that we work in.
[23:28] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely. Yeah. I love that. So I'm curious how you learned about how how you know where where the connection came from.
[23:41] SPEAKER_00: How you can I mean, I'm just determined. I don't necessarily mean every deciding step, but kind of determined that this is a place you want to spend some time and energy and money and all that good stuff.
[23:54] SPEAKER_01: So we have we have our corporate given. So we have a certain amount of money that we're able to give to organizations every year.
[24:02] SPEAKER_01: But we also have a community foundation and that community foundation hosted an initiative that I worked on for a couple of years that was called pathways to employ ability.
[24:11] SPEAKER_01: And it was really focused on helping young people in COVID recovery, knowing that young people were the hardest hit both from job losses, educational stoppage, anything that had to do with the economy, young people were being the hardest hit.
[24:24] SPEAKER_01: So we developed an employment program that was three years in duration and that was really focused on supporting young people to get into jobs.
[24:31] SPEAKER_01: So not necessarily skills training, soft skills training resiliency. How can we help them to be more comfortable and confident and moving into their next steps of their way.
[24:43] SPEAKER_01: So we were definitely on the look at for partners that would be able to fit into that mold for us and be able to help us to help young people to support that work.
[24:50] SPEAKER_01: So when an organization calls or emails and we get a lot of these across all of the aspects of the work that we do, we get hundreds of requests every year.
[25:01] SPEAKER_01: And we typically focus on national level initiatives. We typically focus on ones that fall within our areas of impact.
[25:07] SPEAKER_01: And once we get you get through that kind of shoot, it's then whether or not there's a fit.
[25:14] SPEAKER_01: And we have checklists, we have ways that we can have our finance team vet and organization.
[25:20] SPEAKER_01: We do all of that. Then at the end of the day, it's about it and it's about gut feeling and it's about just understanding that somebody is really bringing something cool into the world that meshes with us as an organization.
[25:33] SPEAKER_01: It'll help us to meet our goals and they really need our support to be able to take it to the next level and to be able to do the good work that they need to do.
[25:41] SPEAKER_01: So you can't train people to do that. I'm very lucky that I have a team that's really good at it that understands a lot of our team came from the nonprofit world.
[25:50] SPEAKER_01: So we understand what it takes to run an organization. We know what it takes to start up something and to try and sell that to someone.
[25:57] SPEAKER_01: So we're always I think probably a little bit more respectful of the way that organizations come to us looking for money.
[26:05] SPEAKER_01: We know what you need to be able to make things happen. And so a lot of us do rely on that gut feeling of just is this is this a person that I could work with and do I truly believe in the work that they're going to do.
[26:16] SPEAKER_01: Adam came in as he mentioned he came in or at the beginning through my boss my VP Chad and had an initial conversation with him and within minutes I had an internal message from Chad saying you need to talk to this guy.
[26:30] SPEAKER_01: He's at the beginning. He doesn't know where he needs to go yet. He doesn't know what he needs to be supported. We need to talk to him.
[26:38] SPEAKER_01: And within a couple of days Adam and I were talking and with the intent of that conversation it was like he said it was just we just knew this was something that we could help.
[26:46] SPEAKER_00: I we were talking a little bit before we hit record and I think the thing there's a lot of things that I love about the story.
[26:53] SPEAKER_00: But one of the things that stands out and I mentioned this before is it's so nice to hear someone in a leadership position organization talk about the gut feel and talk about those intangibles because at the end of the day.
[27:07] SPEAKER_00: These are you know Shawna you are a real human the people who work working a big company like cooperators they're real humans and to have a face that is approachable a person that feels like you can connect with them.
[27:23] SPEAKER_00: Makes a huge difference across the board. I'm sure Adam would agree with that but it's it's also unexpected quite often when people reach out to a big organization.
[27:35] SPEAKER_01: I think you're right I hear this quite often.
[27:38] SPEAKER_03: It was it was definitely unexpected.
[27:44] SPEAKER_03: I think that for myself with no experience in putting a big idea out there as a entrepreneurs or creator of a new program.
[27:58] SPEAKER_03: It wasn't necessarily the outcomes specific outcomes I would be able to talk about.
[28:04] SPEAKER_03: And so I felt nervous about that.
[28:07] SPEAKER_03: I came at it from a position of this is everything that I've done in my life and this is everything that I know.
[28:14] SPEAKER_03: And I'm speaking on behalf of all of these youth behind me who need who need these things.
[28:22] SPEAKER_03: And I hope this is coming across that this is coming from a good place.
[28:29] SPEAKER_03: And and then immediately with several folks at cooperators actually.
[28:37] SPEAKER_03: There was just this genuine feeling of we hear you we hear who you're representing and we see that we see that too.
[28:49] SPEAKER_03: And it was very affirming of of my life's experience in this field.
[28:55] SPEAKER_03: But also very I would say like inspirational I guess to know that people in the financial world were at a level themselves where they were concerned about these issues that I would see.
[29:12] SPEAKER_03: And we're in a position maybe to to do something about it financially.
[29:17] SPEAKER_03: And so I think for me was I was I was blown away by the humility of of these folks and of admitting themselves that we're not the people that are going to create these programs.
[29:30] SPEAKER_03: But we're going to identify the places in which we could we could push some some funds to so that we could really maximize those funds and be able to see some wonderful results.
[29:43] SPEAKER_03: But to be totally frank I was blown away that there was someone like with as big as hard as Shana working in a position like that.
[29:53] SPEAKER_03: I don't know why but I just felt like you know I might have to speak in these really numeric terms to like get across my like passion for this topic.
[30:05] SPEAKER_03: And it wasn't really that it was who am I and where do I come from it and where the voices that I'm trying to speak for and trying to elevate.
[30:18] SPEAKER_03: And I think they recognize that right away. And so yeah, I don't know if that makes sense, but it was just like such a relief to connect on a human level to somebody in that position in the corporate world.
[30:33] SPEAKER_03: And it's been a wonderful relationship and I mean it kind of transferred and this is kind of a little side story slash you know this is my commercial for the cooperators but I also also you know as an organization that was taking youth out onto the land and for new experiences.
[30:53] SPEAKER_03: And we were starting up very quickly and it became very clear that as a new organization that it was going to be very hard to get insurance.
[31:04] SPEAKER_03: And so this is where this like story kind of continues and so I was I was going through all these hoops to try and get insurance for a new company.
[31:15] SPEAKER_03: Like I said, trying to take kids into our kids or young adults into situations where insurance companies are generally like I don't want anything to do with that.
[31:27] SPEAKER_03: And we were actually told that a few times.
[31:30] SPEAKER_03: And so I just you know I reached out to Shawna and said hey, do you also like give advice on how I can get some insurance for our new organization.
[31:41] SPEAKER_03: And she said absolutely let me connect you with this person and this person and and all of a sudden I'm talking to Christina in Calgary and I'm like Christina I am we're in a serious trouble this program is set to start in I think it was like a week or two weeks.
[31:59] SPEAKER_03: And we have zero insurance right now we have youth coming from across Canada to go in this program and she said she's like okay I hear you.
[32:10] SPEAKER_03: I'm stopping everything else I'm doing right now because I know how important this is to you and I'm going to walk you through this and we're going to get this done.
[32:18] SPEAKER_03: And I was like you know I don't know about about you so I mean but I'm not used to really really good customer service and I'm like whoa wait a second here like this is this is crazy and then she she did it and she they took care of us.
[32:32] SPEAKER_03: And we received you know wonderful insurance package I never thought I would say that we're wonderful insurance package that's not really too exciting I know but but it really is it's exciting because we wouldn't have got off the ground or exists right now without that it was like a key piece to all of this.
[32:51] SPEAKER_03: And so I was just wrapped up in this feeling like I was being taken care of as a person trying to do something good trying to help elevate others like I said and I just I needed that extra support and and I got it and it was like it was wild that feeling of being supported that way so sorry that's a side story I said I would do lots of side stories I hope that's okay.
[33:21] SPEAKER_00: We love side stories and it's a good and it's it's the perfect side story because I have a question for Shawna based on that but also it highlights again it kind of reinforces the importance of that human element that is at work that Shawna you clearly bring in that Christine was at her name bring brought my hoping that okay that brought with the transition right it is that.
[33:45] SPEAKER_00: This is not Shawna is not the exception at cooperators where it's Shawna is the one real person who's the face of cooperators right but that it can it's consistent and that does speak to the culture and it does speak to the difference and it's it clear that you know you had a very particular experience Adam that was unexpected and positive and that is a wonderful thing to be able to highlight in a story like that because it's not.
[34:14] SPEAKER_00: It's the case with insurance for those of us who have had the benefit of dealing with some insurance companies over the years which you know Shawna what I have many questions for you but I do want to ask this question is it sounds like they're you know in transitioning to in connecting Adam with Christine that it was really clear that this was a specific.
[34:38] SPEAKER_00: There was an area of specialization here let's put it that way when it came to insurance so why does cooperator why is cooperators offer this or have this or is able to customize in these ways when it sounds like most places were not able to accommodate so this clearly is something different and unique.
[34:59] SPEAKER_01: Yeah absolutely so we have a product that's called community guard and it is specific to nonprofits social enterprises charities community organizations that are looking to be able to ensure their activities and we didn't have this as a product over the years and about 20 years ago we have community advisory panels which are made up of residents across the country some of them are clients some of them are.
[35:28] SPEAKER_01: They come from all walks of life and they help to guide how we serve so every few months they get together we talk about products and needs and communities and they are eyes and ears across the country and about 20 years ago the group in Monkton it runs.
[35:43] SPEAKER_01: And then the next week said this would be a really cool idea that if we could they they have been hearing that organizations were having a hard time with insurance so we vote one we decided that this was something that we could offer we'll give it a try.
[35:57] SPEAKER_01: Tested out highlighted it for about a year and it's been an offering of ours ever since.
[36:02] SPEAKER_01: So it was driven by community it was driven by what they were hearing on the ground as being the needs that weren't being met by anybody else so we developed a product fit.
[36:11] SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's turned out in Adams case to be exactly what he needed at the right time and since then I now have another maybe five or six of our partners that we've been funding and are now also insurance clients of ours as well because of the experience that we had with Adam so it not only helped him but it helped a whole bunch of other organizations because I was not thinking as I was talking to them.
[36:36] SPEAKER_01: Do you guys have insurance mean I don't sell insurance I know nothing about insurance I connect them to my experts that can do that for them but even just knowing that this was maybe a need that they were having is something that we could then tailor a little bit more conversation to so that we're supporting them financially and helping them to actually offer their their service but also at the same time being able to ensure their activity.
[36:57] SPEAKER_00: Beyond this idea of changing the I'm going to say idea again because repetitive changing the idea of partnership or or progressing or evolving this idea of partnership.
[37:14] SPEAKER_00: What you know is there advice or suggestions or avenues that you would suggest to entrepreneurs who you know may have been where Adam was a year ago who were looking for money, support to figure out what they don't know in the you know changing careers for example what they may not know.
[37:42] SPEAKER_00: What do you need if there any you know what could you suggest to them Shawna.
[37:51] SPEAKER_01: I think if anybody's just spent the last little while listening to Adam it is to be to find your passion to find the thing that you are absolutely driven by and it can't be money and it can't be morals and it can't be title.
[38:06] SPEAKER_01: So it has to be something that that makes your heart saying every day and that's quite off quite obvious with Adam every time we talk I all I get from him is this passion about the work that he's doing that we first is to find what it is your passion about and actually follow that.
[38:24] SPEAKER_01: And then to be authentic about it I mentioned earlier that we get hundreds of requests for funding every year.
[38:32] SPEAKER_01: What Adam did was understand what we did was to figure out what's important to cooperators what programs do they have that could fund me and how do I connect to what they're doing on the ground and what's important to them.
[38:46] SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't it was a cool call absolutely it was what it was a targeted call.
[38:51] SPEAKER_01: So that when I opened up his email I was reading through it and thinking wow this got this yeah absolutely so that by the time he and I actually spoke I knew pretty good feeling that this was going to go well.
[39:03] SPEAKER_01: A lot of those requests don't do that they're very generic quite often they have another company's name in the title or somewhere in the text they just don't take the time in the effort to be able to target that and if you're looking for money you need to target that because you need to understand our side of the world which is we don't have a lot of time we get a lot of requests.
[39:21] SPEAKER_01: And we have a very targeted yield for funding typically most companies will be the same it's not just us they'll have a very narrow focus area that they tend to put their time in their effort into.
[39:30] SPEAKER_01: And if you don't match that then we have to say no it's not that we don't want to spoke I could fund everybody but I can't everybody's cause is valid but if it doesn't match what we're doing corporately i'm just not able to do that so taking the time to actually learn what a potential fund or a partner is looking for is very very important.
[39:48] SPEAKER_01: And then just bring your best self to that conversation you don't need to wear a suit and tie you don't you can you can wear a t-shirt and be hanging out at a hotel it doesn't matter it's just bringing your real self to that being open and honest and vulnerable on both sides I would give the same advice to any corporate leader as well.
[40:04] SPEAKER_01: And going to it with with your whole self and if it doesn't work it doesn't work but at least give it a try and then be honest as well follow up quickly either yes or no and make that decision happen don't let an organization languish for months on either side make sure that if you're going to have something happen either way you know just do it quickly after.
[40:28] SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that and I love that you said show up in a t-shirt and just be vulnerable because I think again right.
[40:36] SPEAKER_00: Adam is like t-shirt right here this is what we're doing but it's a how t-shirt it's a how t-shirt which is exactly what it should be.
[40:46] SPEAKER_00: But I think it's important you know people step into again especially with big organizations they step into I need to wear a suit and be not me this is not who I am but this is what's expected this is what they're going to expect and I think that we're always better off to show up as ourselves and walk away even if it doesn't work out knowing that we were ourselves and it was an alignment with who we are we weren't performing for someone else.
[41:16] SPEAKER_00: Then to perform and maybe you get the money and then it doesn't work out it doesn't feel right there's lots of stories of that out there so I think I really appreciate you emphasizing that because the entrepreneurs who are listening to this who are thinking I need money or funding or support.
[41:33] SPEAKER_00: It's not worth not being true to who you are to get that doesn't work long term in my experience.
[41:41] SPEAKER_01: Perfectly said I think that if you are if you're coming looking for anything even if you're coming and looking for insurance.
[41:49] SPEAKER_01: You have to be able to talk to other person on the phone and treat them like a real person like there's we talked earlier silly before I started recording about power dynamics and that there is always going to be a power dynamic as a funder we hold the cash.
[42:04] SPEAKER_01: But as an entrepreneur as a new person getting into this as somebody who's trying to start an organization they also have a ton of power that I don't think they recognize they hold and that power is around knowing what needs to be done on the ground.
[42:18] SPEAKER_01: I don't know that I sit in my office and I look out in the world and I hope and pray that somebody will come to me and tell me what I need to focus on.
[42:29] SPEAKER_01: That's where the organizations hold the power.
[42:31] SPEAKER_01: The goodness of what you want to do and where you want to go and what you want to be is the power I hold the money but anybody can hold the money.
[42:39] SPEAKER_01: So don't ever short sell yourselves and think that it's going to be this white tower person who's going to be making these decisions.
[42:48] SPEAKER_01: It's a partnership and a true partnership means both sides bring stuff to you.
[42:52] SPEAKER_00: Yep, it's that you were ever in in this case I'm not saying everyone in the world but in this case you're looking for a win win where it's not a power over power under dynamic it is a win win and that is a partnership.
[43:04] SPEAKER_00: It's really clear how passionate you are about this Adam and I really appreciate you bringing that and sharing that and Sean it's I mean I can completely understand how getting on the phone with Adam you'd be like yeah let's do this because it's evident that this is incredibly meaningful and incredibly impactful.
[43:22] SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to ask this question Adam where can the young entrepreneurs who are listening who are now succumbed to your pitch where can they find more about how.
[43:34] SPEAKER_03: Well if you google the howl experience or experience howl.com you can find our wonderful website filled with all our all of our programs we're starting our first full semester program this January.
[43:50] SPEAKER_03: Where youth from across Canada will come together for four months in the Rocky Mountains and take a deep dive into understanding this community here the ecosystems the cultural lenses the issues facing this community and all the wonderful people in this community who are trying to make it a better place and sustainable place to live so that's my invitation is.
[44:14] SPEAKER_03: I guarantee it will be better than any university for your program wrapped up in four months we won't give you a certificate I'll give you a certificate I can make one if you want or give you a mark or something like that it's necessary but it's more about the real learning opportunity what what is a community have as a function and who am I within a community that I think people need to take a step back and pay more attention to.
[44:41] SPEAKER_00: Very cool thank you and Shauna where can people find out more about cooperates but also about the citizenship part of cooperators because that's incredibly cool.
[44:54] SPEAKER_01: I love what Adam just said about being part of the community and how you fit in thank you that was beautiful and so we are cooperators dot C.A. on our website there's a section called about us and you just drop down to communities.
[45:08] SPEAKER_01: You can also send us an email it's community at cooperators dot C.A. and we're happy to talk to anyone we do tend to focus our community community giving community foundation we do tend to focus on community organizations but we're happy to talk to people and we'll even direct them to insurance advice if they need it.
[45:28] SPEAKER_00: It's a real partnership is what we keep coming back to it's a real partnership thank you both for chatting with me today it's been I've really enjoyed this.
[45:38] SPEAKER_00: It's been lovely to get to know both of you and to learn more about what you are up to in the world so thank you for taking the time I really appreciate it.
[45:46] SPEAKER_00: And for anyone who is listening thanks for listening to Canada's podcast like comment and subscribe to all our channels to get the latest podcasts from entrepreneurs across Canada.
